For fucks sake is this the state of western leftist discourse now? Honestly it's not too far from the "I want to support Gaza, but the Moooozlims there are anti-LGBT so yeah...." shit that liberals say.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Canada is not a socialist state, Canada is not a former colony with a national liberation government, Canada is an imperialist power (oppressed indigenous population notwithstanding) and as such the Revolutionary Defeatist principle holds real firm

There can't be any defense of Canada for the simple reason the "legitimate government" will become quisling the moment any real force is applied by the United States, and what's the alternative framework? Fight to the last Canadian? Or god help us, Fight to the last First National? You want to copy the Ukraine model of "solidarity"?

The criteria of critical support or support in general isn't based on a person's idiosyncratic ideas of what nations they happen to like or dislike, it's based on a nation's relationship with global imperialism and sorry, but Canada is firmly embedded in the heart of imperialism and as a result we move from critical support to defeatism

Now if an indigenous and general socialist resistance movement develops as a result of the imperialist struggle, THEN we can talk about support, critical or otherwise

[+] PaX@hexbear.net 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

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[–] GrosMichel@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago

Get his ass.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Canada isn't simply in cooperation WITH imperialism, IT IS an imperialist power, you need to do research on the havoc Canadian mining firms wreck across the world and the support Canada offers to neo-nazis forces globally

The fact an imperialist power can lose an inter-imperialist conflict doesn't negate the fact of what it's government and institutions are, and those relationships don't change even if it loses, it simply switches ownership to a new set of imperialists, again we wouldn't be dealing with a national liberation government struggling against a bully, we'd be dealing with a quisling government getting wacked by its overlord, and you're saying the socialist position should be to intervene and prop up the quislings for the sake of......national pride? A vague sense of sovereignty? A hopeless hope of settlers joining forces with the indigenous? Like NO flat out, NO

This is exactly the problem, that your anti-imperialism is conditional and until any (hypothetical) national resistance struggle meets your criteria

There is no ideological conditionality or criteria on my part, it simply needs to possess the quality of EXISTING, and that's independent of any list of ideals I would prefer, my comment you quoted is simply me not taking the idea of imaginary revolutions seriously

Cuz tbh, the settler Canadian government doesn't have the juice to resist this shit anyway if it gets real

Exactly, so WHY DO YOU WANT US TO SUPPORT IT lMAO!??! What cause it's the "moral" and "neighborly" thing to do? I'm not a Canadian nationalist

Idk, in summary...... were the Chinese communists wrong for working with Chiang Kai-Shek in the anti-Japanese war?

The Sino-Japanese War was not an inter-imperialist conflict, it was a war of annihilation and fascist expansion, is the US gonna genocide the Canucks now?

[+] PaX@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

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[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You're legit reading the worst things possible into what I said

lmao I got called an "imperial chauvinist" and a "raging misanthrope" in this thread because I think critical support for an imperialist government that gave a standing ovation to an SS officer isn't a tenable position for socialists to advance, so let's not get precious or in our feelings all right

OBVIOUSLY we extend solidarity to the working class of Canada no matter what the US and the SS loving Canuck state decides to do, but that is not the same thing as cheerleading whatever bullshit response the Canadian gov cooks up in response to Trump's expansionist mood, especially when that response will be, as some comments have already predicted; a partial or full surrender