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It raises the price they have to pay thousands of other teslas, and if it happens enough, insurance will drop them. Insurance companies don't want to pay out, and they will pull coverage when it becomes too expensive for them to insure.
I just came across this relevant article this morning.
Absolutely. Insurance companies are in the business of not paying insurance claims. They're not in the business of just wantonly giving out money. If they pay out to a client often enough, they drop that client. It's even worse for the insurance companies, cause the cars haven't even depreciated in value yet, they're still on the lot and unsold. Their retail value is set, and every swasitruck that burns, is another $100k payout. Insurance companies will only pay out so many times before their risk assessment team says it's not worth it.
And once you're dropped from one company cause you're a high risk, every other insurance provider raises their rates for you, or they refuse because they don't want the loss.
Burn enough swastikars and there's no insurance, and that's when you start to literally burn his money.
Be that as it may, you're not going to get me to even tacitly endorse arson. Sorry not sorry.
I'm prefacing this clearly; I'm not endorsing anything here.
The current regime is restricting healthcare, trying to legislate people out of existence, and straight up disappearing people. Suffragettes torched and bombed.
That's great.
Nobody cares if you gasp at the sight of protest outside of the designated protest area . Just like nobody cares if you disapprove of a picket line blocking a road because how dare they.
Like what is the end goal here put Tesla out of business? Does anyone believe this would hurt Elon? Say Tesla went bankrupt, so now Elon musk would be worth $230 billion instead of $330 billion. He would live his life exactly the same but now thousands of normal people are underwater on their cars. How is this "winning"?
What am I missing here?
TSLA market cap $766B. That’s a nice loss, if it could be achieved.
Besides, what you’re missing is quite obvious: the only thing that musk understands is fear. Make your own inferences.
You understand that he only ownes 10 or 15% of Tesla. The majority of that is probably held by index funds and other peoples 401ks. So again normal people would loose a lot of money.
If Tesla went bankrupt it would literally be a drop in the bucket for Musk. Also what would he fear? He can pay for his own boat or literal island and security. Saying people should go after musk vs go after anyone who drives a Tesla is very different.
Who gives a shit? Get out of bed with the Nazi if you don't want to lose your money. Propping up Nazis makes you complicit.
$TSLA is a huge, bloated bubble filled with nothing but hype. If they were treated by the market as just a regular old car company (like Ford [$F] or General Motors [$GM]), their market cap would be a tiny fraction of what it is currently. Their market cap at the closing bell today is $724 billion, with a stock price of $224 per share. Compare that to Ford (which has more than twice Tesla's yearly global sales figures) with a market cap of $39.4 billion and a stock price of $10 / share. Or to GMC (which has sales figures about 60% higher than Tesla's) at a market cap of $48.4 billion and a stock price of $49 / share.
If Tesla's stock was valued based on their actual business instead of investor hype driven by mind-boggling adoration for their CEO, their market cap would probably be around $20 billion, which with their current number of outstanding shares, would put the price at around $6.20 per share.
Ok, so you might throw out the fact that Tesla also sells batteries and has their hands in AI and other things. Those are all very small parts of their overall yearly business, but the market is also based on future expectations. Let's say that a fair price for their stock would be maybe $10 / share. $12 at the absolute most.
It's at $224 per share today. In December of last year, it hit a high of $480.
$TSLA is the modern version of the Dutch tulip market in the 1630s. Its perceived value bears absolutely zero resemblance to its actual value. You're worried about investors losing their shirts on this, but this shit has been vaporware from the beginning. Anybody who based their investment strategy around Tesla's stock has been playing roulette. Am I supposed to feel bad about them losing because they bet on black instead of red?
That's a lot and totally irrelevant. Who here is arguing Tesla isn't over valued? Not me.
My point was that do you have a pension, 401k or some retirement funds? They you are partially invested in Tesla. Will you lose your shirt, no. Would Tesla going to 0 hurt you more then Musk, probably.
Also dude Tesla releases financial statements. You can read them to find out exactly how it's valued. That's the point of them! All public companies do. Stop copying pasting from random website its not helpful nor did it add anything. Also Dutch tulip theory is a horrible comparison.... Like what....
I'm thinking you guys live in an echo chamber.
Well, first of all, I didn't copy paste shit. Secondly, I think the Dutch tulip theory is a completely apt way to describe something whose price is so completely disproportionate to its actual value. Thirdly, I have been tracking this shit for years, now, and I know a little bit about what I'm talking about.
I understand that a lot of people have tesla in their portfolios, either directly or through index funds. That doesn't change any tiny bit of the point that I was making, which is that the stock is 100% based on hype alone. Stocks based on hype are not reliable - just look at $GME. So whining about the stock going down because people are mad at Elon and torching a few cars is fucking dumb. The stock could go down because of a rumor, or because Elon says something stupid at a convention, or because of any number of things. It's vapor.
Okay well your numbers are wrong based on the financial reporting. They do hold physical assets, land, machinery, buildings etc and that alone would value them higher than 12 bucks for starters.
Second, if you're confident in your theory short the stock and report back in a year how that went. Then you can show youre correct irrefutably. Based on what you're saying you will be rich.
Bro... do you think that Ford and GMC don't own land, machinery, buildings, etc? That's part of the fucking valuation.
And christ - the market is completely irrational. It valued a piece of shit like $TSLA at $480, for fuck's sake. No telling what the fuck is going to happen in a year. Your supposition that the market will do what it's "supposed" to do to poorly valued stocks indicates that you don't have a whole lot of experience staring that particular beast in the mouth.
I don't think you understand how valuations work. Also it looks like you don't read your own comments? Maybe you're a bot?
The market behaves like it should over the long run. How do you think so many people are able to make soo much money. The thing is Tesla is a highly valued stock. Like most other stocks with high PE ratios they have the potential to make a lot of money in the future. So people are taking a calculated risk. Investors aren't basing their valuations off keyboard warriors in their mom's basement. Read the financials and see why people value it higher than Ford and gmc. It's in there. Do I personally agree no but others do. This same basic fact pattern applies to all companies.
Based your theory above you should never invest in the market as there is no rhyme or reason why anything happens? Let me guess you're one of those people who sits home all day blaming everyone else cause they have no job or money? You do you brooo
My guy. Jesus. Just stop. Please don't tell me that you think that Tesla, a car company with a bit more than a third of the global assets of Ford, and with less than half their yearly sales, should have a market cap 18 times higher than them. You're embarrassing yourself.
Tesla's valuation, in a rational market, would (like most other stocks) be in line with their industry. You take the assets, subtract the liabilities, and multiply by an industry-specific value to represent their potential for long-term growth. For Ford, that value (PE ratio) is 6.90. For GMC, it's 7.73. Since Tesla has far fewer global assets than Ford and GMC (~$122 bn for TSLA, $285 bn for F, and $280 bn for GMC), it would be generous to give them a PE ratio of 7, even with them being involved in industries other than auto manufacturing. Let's say 6.5 would be a reasonable PE.
6.5 times their $7 bn in earnings in 2024 would be a market cap of $45.5 bn, which is almost 16 times lower than their market cap in December of last year.
By any rational metric, TSLA is a bloated piece of shit. The fact that you think otherwise either means that you don't know what you're doing, or you're an idiot.
Hey do me a favor let me know where I said Tesla was properly valued? I'll wait... *Hint you won't. Please read the words.
Again another long rant totally irrelevant and opinion based. Arguing against a point I never made. You're welcome to your opinion that's fine man. I'll be hanging out over here in reality. Take a deep breath go outside touch some grass.
Are you slow, or something? This entire thread started because you were whining about people being hurt by Tesla losing money. Then, when I pointed out that it's a bloated piece of shit and cited a valuation that was in the right ballpark, you said: "I don’t think you understand how valuations work".
So, were you lying then, or are you lying now as you're pretending that you agreed with me the entire time that Tesla is overvalued?
Me slow... I read all the words. Hence you can't find anywhere I said Tesla was properly valued. I wasn't whining about Tesla losing money. I don't care. I said Tesla going to 0 wouldn't hurt musk. You've said nothing to disprove that. Just gone on random rants. Again I never said I didn't think Tesla was over valued. You clearly do and I never disagreed. You clearly need to read.
Also your valuation is still wrong hahaha. You thinking Tesla should be $12 and being able to prove that out with a fact pattern are two different things. I'm assuming here but I'm guessing you've need read a financial report, never done a dcf, have no idea how to model an investment and don't know what PE ratios actually means. That can all be true and I can still believe Tesla is overvalued.
Well, you are at least correct about one thing. I was incorrect about the $12 stock price. In my defense, I wasn't looking at the numbers at the time, just spitballing it. But going with the $45.5 bn valuation I mentioned previously, and their 3.5 bn outstanding shares, that would put the price per share at $13. I humbly accept the humiliation that comes with getting a hypothetical stock price incorrect by 8%.
I mean, I did allude to the fact that I think you might be an idiot before, and since you said that you read everything I wrote, I'll just leave it at that. You're not helping your case by being so hilariously wrong here.
Valuation still wrong. You can't throw random numbers together man. Good job sport nice try though! So smart....... So so smart
Alright, well, I showed you mine. Let's hear your valuation & rationale. My numbers are all based on the publicly available data. Let's see what you got.
Hahah yep there we go.... You haven't been using publicly available data cause as far as I can see you haven't referenced any number from their financials once. If you want to know what their assets are worth without any fluff go right to their balance sheet and add some numbers from their last audited or quarterly fs. It's so easy even you could do it. It'll give you a ball park. Should take like 10 minutes and you'll actually learn something and you'll be able to argue with random people on the Internet and know what your talking about.
Err... what? I've referenced several numbers from their financials. What the fuck are you talking about?
Uh yeah - I quoted that. Seriously, didn't you say that you read everything I wrote? You couldn't be bothered to skim it before posting this just to make sure you didn't look like a dipshit when you hit reply?
Is this some sort of ploy to salve your ego in advance or something? I mean, Jesus. That's truly pathetic.
Hahaha so pathetic hahahaha. Still doesn't make you right hahaha. If you're referencing numbers from their financials you either can't read or don't know how to add numbers together. It's fine man. I won't judge. So I guess you moved on from arguing with yourself Tesla is over valued. So I guess that something.
Alright, bud. I'd be very interested in seeing what math you do to make the $7 bn net income from FY 2024 (which I mentioned) into something other than $7 bn. Or the $122 bn total assets & equity (which I also mentioned) into something other than $122 bn. Like... what the fuck are you even talking about?
Source I'm using:
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/tsla/financials
Jeez the cursing and the insults ooo gosh I'll never be able to recover. The super smart man on the Internet made fun of me hahahahahah.
Still haven't gotten a copy of the financials which breaks things out. So that would be a problem. After you find them you'll have to add up some numbers. You might need a super computer for that hahahah.
I haven't laughed so much in so long. People getting so irrationally angry. So thank you for that. Honestly
I don't... I really don't understand what's happening here. Are you pretending to be stupid to troll me or something? Is this how you get your jollies? By pretending to have a room temperature IQ to strangers online? Is it some weird kind of kink or something? Bro... are you using me to get your rocks off? Not fucking cool, man. You don't just drag strangers into your kink. I did not consent to that shit. Go do your whole humiliation fetish thing somewhere else.
Again with the insults. It's just a few numbers. All you have to do is add them. Can he do it? I don't think so but people are rooting for you.
We're all amused because you're so confidentialy wrong and the answer is sooo simple.
Also for transparency sake we have a bet going on in my office if you can get the right number. You've made everyone's day here. So I can't give you anymore hints.
I don’t give a fuck how much he owns. The point is to hose all the fat fucks and to brand him as toxic. And to familiarize those assholes with urgent dread.
This does not accomplish any of that though
Musk's purchase of Twitter was backed by Tesla stock. If the stock tanks enough, that bill comes due.
No it doesn't that not how it works ugh..
We're in this whole mess because people don't think through their words and actions. Anyone advocating blindly going after anyone with a Tesla then you're really no better then Musk.
On that note do I have the answers on how to fix this mess, no, but I know it's not this.
Spoken like a true Enlightened Centrist.
Based on what? That I don't want to burn random people's cars? Yep you got me. Good one dude!
That is how it works in this case. Musk took loans backed by the value of his TSLA holding as collateral in order to fund his part of the twitter purchase. Value of TSLA drops enough, those loans get called.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/elon-musk-faces-margin-call-on-loan-used-to-purchase-twitter
https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/25/23141940/elon-musk-tesla-twitter-margin-loan-buyout-deal
I don't know if we have enough visibility into how much he's currently margined to know when he's at risk of getting called again, but it doesn't seem realistic to think that he's not currently margined.
Old articles the deal has been refinanced a few times now. His expose is much lower now. Though yes two years ago this would have been correct.
Thank you for actually taking time to think out a response with relevant sources and not just name calling. This seems to be more rare than it should be. I wish more people were like that.
Basically people pissed off and need an outlet for that but can't see the forest for the trees. 🤷♂️