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You don't have an issue with Biden calling immigrants "illegals"?
I have no problem with anything he said there, no; and if you do, I would say that you're deliberately making an issue from nothing of substance, in very Republican fashion.
I have family who are undocumented, and yes, I do have an issue with what he said. They are not "illegals." It betrays the same lack of caring that manifests in policy as Migrant children in open-air desert camps are suffering from hunger and hypothermia, court documents say and 'No good options': Biden admin has no plans to change how it treats Haitian migrants despite outrage from advocates. Replace "illegal" with any other pejorative ethnic term and maybe you'll understand. It's seriously not cool, which is why he walked it back later.
The Guardian wrote:
But u/mozz says it's nothing, so I guess we just need to eat shit and shut up. At least Biden had the decency to admit he was wrong.
I've had friends who were undocumented. One was actually in and out of custody before the Obama-era immigration reforms came along; long story short he was able to stay in the country. I still remember talking with people about how to get up bail money to get him out, and him talking about a bunch of things about being in jail in a not-real-friendly part of the country.
I don't believe you. I think you're lying to justify your grandstanding. I already sent you a pretty long list of what Biden has done factually on immigration. Seizing on him quoting back to someone hateful, a hateful word that they used, in order to make a point back to them, and spending any amount of energy saying that means anything, is a bunch of bullshit. That's actually one reason I don't believe you -- I've seen people in this community who take the viewpoint that all US politicians are basically the enemy with no particular reason to pick good ones or bad ones or get excited about this Fox News bullshit about any of them, and I've seen people who actually study in detail what's going on factually, but doing this Judge Judy level determinations of who it is that's good and bad on immigration policy and then getting all excited about it, I haven't seen too much of except from outsiders to the community.
It's not even like this is a random position only seen on Lemmy from perpetual detractors. The person you're responding to literally gave you quotes from Latino public figures and advocacy organizations. But yeah, your ~~black~~ undocumented friend totally makes you a convincing authority on which immigrant rights positions are coming from the community.
I make no claim to authority; I'm explaining what I think and why, including why I think juicy is lying. Maybe my experience with probably-shills has made me jaded but that's what I think.
You're obviously within your rights to think that Ramirez, Chuy García, or the Immigrant Justice Center are right and I am wrong about why Biden said "illegal". I think the transcript speaks for itself and I think they're being foolish and self-defeating if they're falling into the trap of attacking him over it.
It's not a matter of whether they're right, it's a direct contradiction to your insinuation that this is a fake sentiment coming from "outside the community". And those weren't even the Latino only congressmembers who objected to it.
Maybe cool off on the "he's lying" when you're trying to claim that a pretty well recognized anger over a Democratic president adopting conservative framing and policy for the border is astroturfing using "I had a friend" as your justification.
Yeah, that’s honestly a fair point. I assumed that 100% of serious immigration advocates would recognize it for the bullshit that it is, so that feeding into this transparent grandstanding mythology about what Biden said and meant and neglecting to observe his actual record on the issues would be a tell of someone who wasn’t a real advocate for immigrants, but apparently that’s not true. Live and learn, I guess.
Corporate needs you to find the differences between this picture and this picture.
Actually, let me rephrase:
There we go! Now they're different pictures.
(Side note, I will say -- Zaktor's point about being connected to an immigrant community being in no way a guarantee that your opinions on this kind of thing will be good ones, is actually a pretty fair argument. So maybe it's unfair for me to say that I'm skeptical that you have undocumented family solely because of the opinion you're expressing here.)
I deleted my comment after I saw your exchange with Zaktor. I didn't mean to beat a dead horse. Props to you for hearing him out.
Biden is legitimately bad on immigration. See the articles I cited above. He's just better than Trump. He's a lot better than Trump, to the point that it is not easy to withdraw my support because of his support of genocide. I am truly fearful of the consequences for my family of another Trump term. But whatever happens to us, it will be a mere inconvenience next to what families in Gaza are suffering.
So here's where it breaks down for me: I read your citations. It's fuckin terrible. But it sounds like you're traveling from "some things with our immgration system are very very bad" to saying Biden is making it bad on purpose.
Things are way way better than they were before, and Biden is pushing to make things better than they currently are. (E.g. -- the immigration bill, for as many pretty nasty concessions as it made to the Republicans, contained things like massively increasing the number of asylum judges to clear the huge backlog of people who are stacking up because we can't process them, that is at the root of a lot of this terrible human suffering in the specific ways you're listing out from The Guardian etc.)
What are you proposing he do? What specific actions under his control would resolve something like the Haitians being sent back, or the people waiting to be heard on asylum with nowhere to go in the meantime?
Oh, also what's your assessment of what Trump will do with a situation like Gaza? Do you think he would provide humanitarian aid, do you think he would pressure Netanyahu to stop, do you think he would continue weapons shipments?