this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024
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By this thinking anybody who works in any industry that contracts with the US military is a murderer. The workers who make bullets in a factory, the truck drivers who ship them, people who provide mental health services, cooks who serve them meals etc.
Yup fully agreed.
Well except trying to lump in people who provide counseling after the fact that's a pretty obvious bullshit false equivalency but I suspect you know you were reaching for that example.
It's why when I graduated I took a a job designing water and wastewater systems for small communities instead of a job that paid three times as much where I'd design bombs or do that exact kind of logistics. Because I have a functioning set of morals and not facilitating the MIC was a priority to me.
This is why it's frustrating as somebody whonwas faced with the choice and actively worked to make choices to not be complicit in the imperial war machine pretty fucking annoying to have people insist there's no way it can be avoided.
Apply this same logic to the pretty much universally agreed on fact that nobody should support Biden.
If you can make excuses for the people who do the shooting, make the bullets, facilitate the logistics, or even interact with people in the military what's your problem with Biden? Probablly that he's the one causing all this to happen right? Same applies to everybody literally working every day to make it possible.
Not really, there are psychiatrists, counselors, etc who are in the military doing the same job they would outside the military. Are they more complicit than the contracted workers?
Is their work facilitating the soldiers being able to murder people sooner?
If so than yes, they are more complicit than psychologists who don't get soldiers cleared to get back on the frontlines asap.
It is increasingly hilarious to watch you attempt to make this out to be a complicated moral issue.
Here's a handy flow chart.
Does their work enable current active duty service members to more quickly and easily kill innocent people?
Yes --> they are bad
No --> they are not bad
Hell, let's turn it around and go back to the current thread were in.
So does all this mean that actually you can't criticize the idf because everybody is equally culpable for what's going on in Gaza and the idf is going to be the vanguard of Palestinian liberation any day now?
Expecting the American MIC to be instramental to the socialist revolution in this country sure does feel an awful lot like when democrats keep convincing themselves lifelong republican removed like muller comey and garland are going to fight their battles for them and take down a sitting republican president.
Or like how they whitewashed Bush because he gave Michelle Obama a piece of candy one time.
Sweet fucking christ this really isn't fucking difficult. Yes
If so than yes, they are more complicit than doctors who don't get soldiers cleared to get back on the frontlines asap.
Was that supposed to be a gotcha? Like I said it's increasingly hilarious to watch people try to make this complicated.
The soldiers deserve the injuries they receive (and more) as a result of being a genocidal imperialist.
Please reference the flow chart I have already provided.
Again, yes I'm literally not sure why anybody is having a hard time with this.
For the third fucking consecutive time please refer to this handy flow chart I have already provided.
Let's do a little exercise since apparently you need more practice.
Answer the first question, and then try to follow this super complicated flow chart and tell me what answer you get instead of literally just asking me to walk you through it for various specific examples.
You really going to make me explain to you for a fourth time the difference between psychiatrists who dont facilitate troops returning to active duty and those that do?
And your going to follow that up with accusing me of not having reading comprehension?
Bold fucking move cotton.
This is just defeatist. It's not theoretically sound either, as some American living out of their car selling their labor to scrape by is by any sensible definition proletarian.
They have a proletariat, they just aren't white
Edit: (lmao saying they like I'm not part of it)
If you turn the screws on the death machine, you deserve death yourself. This isn't hard to understand, I cannot conceive of why you would defend people who are actively enabling the war machine. Do you fucking work for raytheon or something?
No I’m just wondering where you draw the line. I pay taxes that go towards building these bombs, is every American taxpayer therefore a genocide enabler? Obviously this is a straw man, but where do we draw the line of who is complicit or not?
Personally, my personal policy has always been don't directly tighten the bolts by working for a company that does. I understand that we can't go around holding a trial for the inventor of the screw because they're used in everything, not just weaponry. But I can pretty comfortably say, anyone who works directly for the US military and accompanying industrial complex deserves no forgiveness. The engineers and workers at raytheon and northrop grumman etc are scum. I have a friend who found out their seemingly normal company was making systems for weaponry and they immediately quite. I think they're cool for walking away the moment they found out.
Past that is very case by case basis.
Yeah that is really principled and cool of them. I understand if my playing devil’s advocate comes off as genocide-defending, that’s really not my intention.
I just don’t want people getting carried away in the same kind of rhetoric being used by the Israelis as an excuse to kill all Palestinians because some of them are Hamas.
Not that being a freedom fighter is the same as being genocidal, it’s just the rhetoric Israel uses to justify their crimes.
Edit: This mostly applies to the other commenter I was talking to