86
Biden is dramatically out of touch with voters on Gaza. He may lose because of it | Moira Donegan
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 22 May 2024
86 points (69.2% liked)
politics
19080 readers
4466 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
You know the article has words in it that aren't in the headline?
And that if you actually care about Biden winning, you need to engage with these arguments or at least have the good sense to STFU for fear of alienating people even further?
There's no need to engage with an argument that makes no sense.
Biden's pro-Israel policy is the same policy we've had for 76 years.
Trump's policy is "Gaza is a cancer, wipe them out fast".
Those are your two choices. You do not have an alternative.
Choosing not to vote only helps Trump.
Voting 3rd party only helps Trump.
US presidents have told Israel to cut the shit and stop or else multiple times in the past and Israel has listened. The same can and should be done here. Eisenhower did it, ford did it, Reagan did it, and h w bush did it.
Trying to voter shame people when they feel so strongly about this really isn't going to work or help you. I agree, Trump really should not be allowed to get into office, but at the same time you can't act as if these voters don't have a right to be angry. For these people, it goes further than just voting.
They really haven't listened, and will continue not listening.
My favorite example was in the run up to the Iraq war. One of the excuses W. tried to float was that Iraq was in violation of 17 or 18 UN resolutions.
At the time, Israel was violating over 80 of them and it would have been more except for US veto power.
As long as the money keeps flowing, Israel doesn't give two shits.
You think this is a persuasive statement?
If the choice is between genocide and more genocide then voters are right to denounce the United States as a whole
It's not intended to be persuasive, it's a statement of fact.
Israel is going to do whatever they want to do regardless of what Biden says.
The difference is, Trump would openly ENCOURAGE such genocide. Further, he would bring the worst of those policies back home, illegally invading Mexico the same way Israel illegally invaded Lebanon.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-mexico-kill-teams-drug-cartels-1235016514/
And what is Biden doing by continuing to supply arms and funds to Israel? And by threatening the ICC and ICJ?
Biden is not telling Israel "Gaza is a cancer, clear it out fast."
Trump specifically said that.
So what?
Biden is arming and funding Israel and is protecting them from international agencies.
Which is far worse than verbal statements
Trump is a fascist. But he never committed a genocide. Biden has.
Which is so foolish, as it makes fascism in America significantly more likely to occur, to disastrous results
Biden has not committed genocide, Bibi is. Biden believes, sincerely believes, that Israel is allowed to defend itself.
Bibi is misaporopriating that belief, and the money, and the weapons.
You have no reason to believe that because you do not know Biden, nor do you have the ability to see into his mind.
The power of AIPAC and the usefulness of having a middle eastern port to place our aircraft carriers in range of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Turkey is a more compelling reason than any argument regarding Biden on a personality level
I believe it because Biden has said it over and over again:
https://youtu.be/Oz1BAOjaTqs
https://youtu.be/P2WvwSPU-Rg#t=1m18s
https://youtu.be/0EKA33Tfa8w#t=40s
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4288336-biden-reaffirms-israel-must-defend-self-international-humanitarian-law/
I agree that he has said it. But why does that make it true?
Repetition of a statement does not create truth
No, but it's an exhibition of sincere belief.
Why?
Politicians lie more than any other profession, and they do it to shape public perception and achieve their political goals, not to express their deeply held personal beliefs.
There is no reason to think Biden is being truthful here, especially in the face of overwhelmingly evidence of Israel's genocide. It's his ineffective attempt to save face as he engages in genocide denial and serves as an accomplice to genocide
Choosing to treat anyone who thinks otherwise as too stupid to realise this is exactly why Trump might win. Please stop.
And people refusing to acknowledge that Biden is better than Trump in every way is going to help Trump get elected as well. We're not calling you stupid, we're pointing out the facts on the ground and why your strategy results in more harm to the people you want to protect.
The only way we beat Trump is by coalescing the Democratic coalition. That's going to take the politicians responding to voters needs AND the voters to show up and prevent GOP victories. Withholding your vote in November, regardless of what Biden does, results in progressive causes backsliding further and makes it harder if not impossible to gain control in the future. I want people to understand that voting is a strategic choice, not a moral one.
It's like 2016 all over again. It's fascinating how we learned absolutely nothing.
We're fucked and there's nothing we can do about it
I'll vote for Biden, and do it proudly, but I'd never be so pathetic as to resort to whatever the fuck these grandstanding libs/Dems/definitely not progressives are doing when they try to "convince" people to support the candidate they support (read: try to feel morally superior for their vote) as they look down their noses at anyone that dares to ask, "Hey, did Clinton oppose gay marriage? Did she do enough to oppose the Iraq War when she was Secretary of State? Is it true she's said some super racist shit in the past?"
If they realized this, they wouldn't be saying Joe is engaging in genocide. ;)
Either stupid or selfish take your pick.
There is zero reason to chase your vote. You will just move the goalposts. It's like negotiating across the isle with the Republicans. All you'll do is make compromises that will alienate your base, and then you'll just pull the football at the last second.
I'm tired of all these "Biden needs to change to get MY vote". The stakes are obvious. If you're not on board to make the best of a bad situation, then your vote is already unobtainable.
You are negotiating in bad faith, and it's obvious to everyone.
gee, you're doing such a great job of that already...