this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2024
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At this point, I'm not sure why anyone would actually buy a Tesla. The alternatives are far less expensive, the "features" of a Tesla are unpolished and dangerous, and the money doesn't go to a megalomaniac with a god complex.
As someone who bought one recently (past yearish) there's several things:
The charger network: Superchargers are so much more plentiful than the alternatives, and there's still not a great central charging app. I have 3 different ones installed on my phone and honestly most of them suck besides Tesla's. Non-tesla chargers are basically just at apartments, businesses, and malls. Very few of which actually help me
Autopilot: when used within reason it's a great feature. I use it in clear weather conditions for highway driving which probably covers 75% of my total time driving. In the optimal environment it feels much safer than a human and the (admittedly biased) data seems to back that up. Also having it commute for you in stop and go traffic is a huge game changer
Tesla is an all electric car company. I don't necessarily trust other big auto companies to continue supporting electric, and to keep supporting specific electric models. We've already seen major auto manufacturers drop a charging standard (which is probably better for Americans) but what's to stop them from doing it again? What stops them from stopping support for a specific model and running out of parts for it? I don't expect an all electric car company with 5 models to do that
Yes, Elon is a massive piece of shit. You know who else is? Every auto exec. The only difference is that they're quiet and effective. Those old money fucks have done so much more harm to our planet because they know how to influence politics effectively. Something something, ethical consumption, something, something, capitalism
Overall I got a mid-price electric car with a decent set of features. I'm relatively happy with my purchase while understanding the clear limitations of it
I just wanted to thank you for your reply. It was so well written and easily digested I feel like I got hours worth of research out of it. God bless Lemmy.
My 2 cents (more like $2 now that I wrote it) is that no car made in the past 20 years can be maintained to the degree older cars could, and electric cars will suffer from the same ephemeral lifespan as all modern autos do. Electric or not, makers will continue to abandon vehicle platforms regularly and aggressively in order to ensure no single component or technology becomes affordable or obtainable outside of a manufacturer-sponsored limited warranty plan. And they will lobby against our attempts to extend the service life of electric drivetrains in the name of safety or design secrecy.
Oh your battery still working at 1 million miles? Sorry we don't make your seats or dash anymore.
I'll carve a dash from a tree and craft seats from junk, but when they stop supporting the software, then you're super fucked. I love my Model Y, but I hope every day to see news that someone has jailbroken it and is working on an open OS for it.
This is actually something I'm paying attention to: Which EVs get hacked and fossed.
I'm hoping the 40KWH zoes get done soon.
Just to be clear, Tesla is really good about their software. They still support their earliest cars, whereas my 10yo Chevy is SOL. But time comes for us all
Good thing Elon Musk fired the entire Supercharger team then.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/inside-story-elon-musks-mass-firings-tesla-supercharger-staff-2024-05-15/
Other autodealers aren't fucking their own company over by destroying the top reason you listed for buying their cars. We're well into the point where its clear that Elon is a terrible businessman not just morally, but also for you as the Tesla customer. There's no way Superchargers can be maintained (let alone expand) if the team is gone.
Well when I purchased my car he hadn't done that, so it didn't factor into my decision. To your second point. That's literally what they just did, I mentioned that in my comment. A bunch of auto manufacturers are switching their primary port, that's another way of fucking your charging network. However, to my benefit, they'll probably be picking up some of Tesla's slack on NACS charging stations. Finally, worst case scenario it's not like Tesla disappears off the face of the earth. If Elon fucks it all to hell they'll break the company into pieces, sell the various pieces to other auto manufacturers and life will move on
You mean like Delorian? Or Fisker Ocean?
Nah man. When a car company goes under, they're dead. We know what it looks like. Otherwise, the #1 car recommend should be Fisker Ocean since its like $25k per car right now. But we all know that company is dead and no one will buy it out of bankruptcy, save those cars, or offer services (or parts) on those cars moving forward.
Same thing if Tesla ever collapses. At best maybe some patents get bought out but no one will want to be left paying the bill and supporting the (now screwed) customer base.
I don't think you realize how much Elon fucked over Superchargers with the firing.
There were projects with $50,000+ to $300k amounts put up by local businesses as they prepared for Tesla Superchargers to be installed in their parking lots earlier this year.
These businesses have gotten ZERO emails, phone or any other communication from Tesla. Why? Because the company fired everyone. Everyone involved in Superchargers is gone. That's no more build out, no more maintenance, no more nothing.
Presumably Elon will figure out (eventually) that this is a bad idea. But then what? He already betrayed a huge number of business customers. Who will want to install new Superchargers in their business after this misstep?
Like I get it. Tesla is losing money and they needed to fire people to keep going. But its not a good look.
What's everyone's suggestion?
I want the dumbest smart car available. Like a Honda Civic but just electric. No smart features.
Closest in the united States is a chevy bolt, but that's still pretty far.
I'd love a fairly dumb ev. Give me just enough computer for battery/charging management and let me do the rest.
It's a shame that's not the default because while do find EVs interesting there's no way I'm buying a car that may stop working after a failed software update. Did early EV manufacturers feel the need to put as many bleeding edge features as possible in their vehicles to make them more alluring? Cause I can't imagine another reason to turn a car into a driveable smartphone.
The new EV only manufacturers often have a lot of tech bros involved. See, for example, how Elon Musk’s hatred for physical buttons led to even the glove box not having a physical latch to open it; you have to dive through menus on the center console to open the glove box.
Unfortunately even the legacy manufacturers are following the tech bros’ lead on this. Most new cars (even non-electric cars) are replacing physical buttons and knobs with touch-sensitive buttons or settings controlled only by screens or voice control. I hate it! I want to be able to reach over and adjust the volume or air conditioner without having to look at what my hand’s doing instead of looking at the road. To me these decisions are being made by people who don’t actually spend a lot of time driving their cars.
Of course, there’s also the part where manufacturers are licking their chops trying to add the sweet recurring revenue of subscription services to their hardware products, like BMW trying to make people pay a monthly fee to use heated seats in their car.
Don't forget GM rolling their own infotainment system that is tied into god knows what instead of allowing Android Auto and Car Play in a twofold decision to have shitty software and sell your driving habits for extra spending cash. That's for all of their vehicles.
Selling your data doesn't have anything to do with Android Auto or CarPlay. You can provide Android Auto and still sell your driving data just fine.
They can sell more. Using their maps? They can sell what kind of places you're looking up. Using their music app? They sell your listening habits. Have their app on your phone to take calls and texts? They can sell that data (likely not the contents, but the connections and frequency) along with whatever data their app collects about your phone.
On my truck they can sell driving data and the fact that I have an android phone. On their new systems they can sell everything.
You mentioned driving data specifically, and that they can sell.
Both volume and ac can be done without even reaching over, you have buttons on the steering wheel for that.
The buttonless glove box allows for setting a pin to open it, and you don't need to "dive" through menus, it's on the main screen, on a voice command, or again, as a button on the steering wheel.
There's much more obvious things to criticize, like the removal of the stalks, especially for blinkers, or the ultrasonic sensors, especially without a front camera.
And BMW subscription would save people money, but people panicked and now it's back as an almost 1000 bucks option instead of a 7 bucks a month "subscription" that you need 3 months of the year in most countries. And they never even removed the option of buying it outright...
If we don't fight all the subscriptions, eventually everything will be a subscription.
That's like, your opinion, man.
The BMW thing wasn't a panic. It was being incensed at being locked out of the hardware that comes with the car and putting it behind a paywall. If you can't see how ridiculous that is I'm not sure what to tell you.
Maybe just build it into the car and give people free heated seats. They're not really luxury anymore.
If putting the hardware in makes the assembly line simpler and the car is 2000 euros cheaper but you want to pay more just to remove the hardware, I don't know what to tell you.
Which Tesla has no front camera?
All of them (except the cybertruck, maybe?). I mean one on grill level, to see what's in front of you below the hood level. They do have one behind the rear view mirror, but that one doesn't see shit when parking (and you can't show it on the screen).
Once you have a microcontroller running things, adding new features is just a matter of software. Doesn't add to the BOM, doesn't complication production in any way. There's almost no marginal cost to techify everything, and the people who don't want those features can just not use them. The small minority of people who want a repairable car that they can understand and maintain in their own garage are undesirable customers who reduce after-market revenue.
While that may be your sentiment, it seems that for many people, especially in countries like China, having more smart features is a positive selling point.
Dunno about no smart features, that's a tall order regardless of powertrain, unfortunately. But otherwise, what's your budget and can you charge at home easily?
Budget is 20,000 or less. I can trickle charge pretty easy.
Ill probably be getting a used electric in the next 5 years, but if its not repairable or good for the next 10 years, ill just wait. With everyone else getting electric, It will be easier to find parts. Or go more on my bike. I did not have a car for a couple of years, its a good way to keep in shape. But it was very dangerous where I am at.
I had a 2017 BMW i3 for about five years. Absolutely loved it. No other EV like it out there, and there should be plenty of them out there in good condition for under 20k. As long as you're ok with the range (70-110 miles depending on model year) and slow DC charging (50kw) Same story with a used Nissan Leaf - evem cheaper and solid car, if range is good enough for you.
VW e-Golf or Ford Focus Electeic would be fun choices too, probably with similar limitations tho
Chevy Bolt is also a solid choice with a more modern range, tho DC charging still at 50kw so not the best for long roadtrips.
Otherwise anything by Kia or Hyundai (Nero, Kona, Ioniq)
VW ID.4 is not perfect but comes close to what you're asking for. also qualifies for full US tax credit. yes it integrates a bunch of stuff into the touch screen. But in terms of "fancy functions" it doesn't really have much except CarPlay/Android Auto.
I went with a Nissan Leaf. But only because it was the only EV I could have gotten on 2022, as it felt so hard to get them and dealers didn't seem to keep me updated on availability.
I was thinking of the leaf. I hear some models are repairable.
Most smart features can be disabled on modern cars if you dont want to use them.
The tracking is harder, but if you are willing to remove the stereo head unit, a lot of brands have their GPS junk attached to it.
Honestly I'm hoping EV conversion kits become cheap and common. Id rather drive an EV converted 2010s Civic than most of the modern internet connected spyware cars out today.
I hear some body shops in LA are starting to do it. Sounds cool if it can gain some traction.
Hyundai Ioniq 5 or Ioniq6 seems to be the dumbest EV (dumb in a good way).
I would suggest most people get a PHEV, like the Prius Prime though.
100‰ on phev. I want the option to use batter or gas, even if gas is just a generator to charge the battery (I'd prefer that).
I dislike Musk and Tesla’s interiors enough that I’m going with a different brand, that said…
The big answer is still the charging network, even with Telsa opening up to NCAS from other manufacturers. If you buy a non-Tesla NACS car, you still only get access to about 1/3 of their network. And the Telsa’s network is still usually much faster and more reliable than its alternatives.
I would also argue that the price to range ratio is still pretty compelling when compared to the competition.
Yup, the Supercharger network is great. Last year my wife and I did a road trip up a down the east coast in our Model Y, and thanks to the superchargers and their integration with the Tesla navigation system we never had any issues.
Having said that, I’m hoping that the rollout of other NACS networks picks up steam. 5 or so years from now when I start thinking about a new car I’ll be taking a hard look at non-Tesla options for both vehicles as well as charging.
the biggest reason back then was that it had the best charging network option. as NACS slowly becomes the defacto connector standard, the unique factors that teslas have starts to yo dwindle.
in pure EV though the alternatives arent entirely less expensive. its a game of certain features over others. For example with traditional car conpanies, many of them still have a terrible cartainment system, with some threatening for example to take away apple carplay/android auto in favor of their own propietary service.
It's one of the few cars that qualifies for the full federal tax credits
... which it has no fucking business doing. This is further evidence of oligopoly
Charging network and autopilot.
The other factor not yet mentioned is charging time/range. There are EVs with more range, and EVs with faster charging times, and EVs that are cheaper, but there are no EVs with a comparable long-range driving ability as Teslas for less money. The Hyundai ioniq 6 is comparable now but it's new, untested, and doesn't really have a used market
Is it? I've seen a fair few here in Seoul.
Yes you've seen a few...they don't have hundreds of thousands of them that have driven for several years yet. It's a brand new platform, so it is definitely considered new and untested. Luckily Hyundai has a good track record for making cars in general, and they have BEV experience from the original Ioniq, which is still one of the most efficient BEVs on the market (although range and charge speeds lack severely on those), and the Ioniq 5 so that should work in their favour. Let's hope they learned a lot from their shitty release of the Ioniq 5 which had an unbelievable amount of SW issues, especially related to battery management.