I agree, though I have to admit that my kitties yelling at me for pets (one is especially loud) while I'm on the phone is a bit of a nuisance. But I'll take that over the old office I was in where there'd be three conversations competing across space rather than people just walking over to the desk of a coworker and talking at a normal volume. God, I hated that!
this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2024
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Work Reform
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Do people who work in the office not shower? 🤔
A good boss doesn't give a shit about whether the workers do other things during work time, as long as the work is done satisfactorily.
At my last office job, years ago when I was young and lived with my parents and had very few financial obligations, I would always ask to clock out and leave whenever I ran out of work to do for the day. It was always busy mornings and slow afternoons. My boss thought I was insane for not wanting to get paid to sit there and fuck around on Facebook (her exact words.) But to me it was worth losing $30-60 to gain back 3-6 hours of my personal life every week.
The boss and most co-workers were great, and the work wasn’t even bad when it was busy, but just physically being present there was soul-crushing.
Most bosses: hmm but if you worked instead of doing small important things for your family you could four double your productivity instead of only triple it!
Most bosses equate having fun with not working and so not having fun with being productive. However, most workers are in a twilight state of not having fun and not being productive.
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The first hour in the office was spent staring at the screen wiggling the mouse from time to time when the screen saver came on because too tired from commuting every day. But, it was at the office so it was productive staring I guess.
Haha it's so ridiculous that these articles never take into consideration that people in the office don't have a lot of productive time.
I had the same, I would have a somewhat easy first hour, then spend 2 to 3 hours really focusing and then I'd basically be done for the day and would spend some time idling after lunch until I deemed it was an appropriate time to leave and "work some more from home".
My best year billability wise was the first year of the covid lockdowns, I managed to generate something like 25% more just because of being able to work from home and cutting back on the travel time to customers and being able to multi-task occasionally when I had a quiet day for a customer. I'm glad I live in the Netherlands, hybrid/remote working seems like it'll remain over here at least.
And they they go on about the free flow of ideas, innovations and cooperation. Please, we were all sitting there with headphones trying to isolate ourselves to get anything done because some manager would always be on a loud phone call and using a meeting space to work was forbidden.
Driving to customers or flying to the other side of the world for a meeting was such a big time sink.
It also reminds me of the story of Rotterdam harbour where they just couldn't find any people anymore. Turns out that the cost of commuting was so high, people made more money doing lower paid work closer to home.
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Gotta love how the articles frames it. While at work people "kill time" with tik tok but at home they "goof off" folding laundry
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And in the office there are people who literally hang out at the coffee machine for 30-60 minutes at a time, talking to everyone who comes by under the guise of "networking".
The media gotta stop reporting on the laundry like it's the equivalent of stealing from the company.
It’d be cool if the media did a piece about how companies are stealing the excess labor of their employees. It will never happen though because “the media” also steals the excess labor from it’s employees.
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I worked with people who could easily spend 30 minutes scrolling social media while pooping.
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We have people here working maximum 1 hour per day, in the home office they can at least not stop others from working.
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You think that's bad, wait until you hear about the shareholders and landlords.
They dont even have to pretend to work to get paid.
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Sounds like they take micro breaks, which is not only healthy, but can help with productivity.
Is anyone complaining about this?
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When I used to work in office:
- Wake up at 7am, get ready to go and take a 1 hour commute in, usually there by 9:00
- Try to find parking, walk to office, morning break room coffee and chatter, usually settle in around 9:30
- Get interrupted multiple times by desk drive bys
- Take 2 hour lunch around noon with multiple coworkers because why not
- Get interrupted multiple times by desk drive bys
- Leave at 4 to try and avoid some traffic
Now that I work from home:
- Wake up and hop online to work, usually settle in by 7:30am
- No desk drive by interruptions
- Eat at my desk during meetings or while simultaneously working
- Sometimes start laundry or something during the day, but who cares?
- Usually work later than 5
Every time I get asked about going back into an office my response is "Why would you want me to be far less productive?"
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If anything, one should absolutely take care of mundane tasks with downtime between productive tasks. If their workflow allows for short breaks, it doesn't make a difference to the employer if nothing is done or an unrelated task is done.
They pay people to complete tasks for their corporation. They don't own the worker's bodies or minds due to the virtue of providing a paycheck.
This concept of whole ownership of people really is baked into US social consciousness.
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Fuck this corporate propaganda.
Work from home and be happy.
This article can be applied the same way to Office workers. No they’re not working 100% of the time. What’s a problem is if they’re exceedingly unavailable or underperforming at their job and affecting others.
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Businesses during covid: we are seeing an all time high in productivity from our workers due to them working from home, this is amazing!
Businesses after covid: these people working from home are nothing but lazy leeches who probably arent even doing their job and are robbing us of our money, despite all our previous statements to the contrary and verifiable statistics counter to this narrative we're now pushing!
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There is a concept that companies and managers need to wrap their stupid brains around. And that is that they are paying for your work not your time. So long as you complete the jobs and tasks they ask of you and need from you it shouldn't matter what the hell you're doing otherwise.
But they're dumb Boomer infected brains have been programmed to expect people to sit in cubicles and offices like drones and stare at computer screens all day long. All so rich CEOs can walk through the building and feel more impressive.
P.S. obviously this is referring to salaried jobs not hourly jobs.
My partners boss took a lot of issues with multitasking and I can't understand his logic.
I was getting fed up of my partners breakfast and lunch dishes piling up in the kitchen.
I'd come home from work to find the kitchen a disaster zone. I wouldn't even have a clean spot of bench space to put my water bottle down.
My partner would explain he didn't have long enough on his lunch break to wash the dishes, and his boss was cracking down on people doing personal chores during the work day.
I suggested if he can't clean up like he's at home, he needs to prepare food like he's in the office. Ie, make a lunch box the night before so there aren't 40 dishes on the day.
He explained that this is how he used to eat in the office, because they had a cleaner who worked while everyone was in, tidying up after them, they'd cook meals for each other and eat family style, and his boss still encourages family lunches via teams/zoom.
So his boss used to hire someone to clean while the pencil pushers were pushing pencils. Now there is no one who's job is to clean, but his boss won't let anyone clean up after themselves, but still expects them to generate mess for team building.
I told my partner he can either get a lunch box, or he can tell his boss "I'm doing the dishes during the work day, if you'd prefer I don't, I won't, but I'll need a raise because divorce is expensive"
If it was any other boss, I'd tell my partner to suck it up and eat faster so he can wash up on his break, but it's the fact the boss is still working in the office with the cleaner, so he's got someone cleaning up as he works, but he won't allow his staff to also work in a safe and clean environment.
Yeah that's a terrible boss. There are a shit ton of those. And the fact that they're arranging his work at home the way he would work in an office is just ridiculous. The idea that you have a "lunch break" at home is just stupid. You should be able to do the work as it's needed not clock-in clock-out style like they're in an office.
It also comes from the fact that many jobs, and many more historically, are/were, in fact, paying you for your time. If you're fortunate enough to work in a job that doesn't care how much of your time is "company time," and you can work 5 hours a week to get everything expected of you done, that's great, but I would be quiet about it.
Any manager I've met would likely make a decision to give you 8x the amount expected of you each week, if that's your situation. That would indicate to me that we can find find someone less skilled that will take longer to complete objectives but we can pay significantly less, or we're not getting as much out of you as we're paying for.
Most people don't have the luxury you're describing, so I would hold on to that job situation!
The backlog at my old job was a solid couple of years long. Probably a decade if you included all the non-critical stuff
If you're fortunate enough to work in a job that doesn't care how much of your time is "company time," and you can work 5 hours a week to get everything expected of you done, that's great, but I would be quiet about it.
Ok, first there are no jobs like this. Or, to be more precise, there are jobs like this but they are few and far between and are always in offices where you can make it look like it's taking a lot of time to get your work done while basically goofing off. And generally speaking they're hourly paid.
Salaried jobs, on the other hand, have a pretty rigorous work load. They don't hire people for a salary position without knowing how much work it takes to get the job done. So whether you are sitting in an office or sitting at your desk at home, the same amount of actual work is required. The only difference is that you don't waste hours getting dressed up and commuting to your job. This is why work from home arrangements tend to be far more efficient for both the worker and the company.
The reason these CEOs and managers are trying to force everyone back into offices is to justify their own egos and jobs. There is literally a ton of evidence that work from home jobs are way more productive than work from office jobs. But these egotistical douchebags don't care. They need to see people slaving away at a desk and to be seen walking through their expensive office buildings in order to feel like they are worthwhile.
I think your argument overlooks some important factors. First, it might not be the case you're maximizing productivity for the company when, by your own admission, you're regularly taking longer lunches and ending work early. Research shows that while remote work can increase productivity by 10-20% for some people, other research shows a decline in productivity. Additionally a recent study from Harvard indicated the productivity increase is less about daily productivity but rather that there are less sick days being taken because they can WFH and turnover decreases because people don't want to leave for a better job (or get fired for taking sick days while WFH) without WFH benefits, which can also stagnate wages. And your stated dramatic threefold increase in efficiency seems extremely unlikely.
The idea that you can complete all your work in less hours a week I believe, but not without any trade-offs. Studies show that remote workers are often more productive due to fewer distractions and no commute, but employers expect that time saved to translate into higher output, not shorter workdays. If a manager noticed you had that extra time, I'm just saying they’d likely give you more tasks to fill your work hours more effectively.
So, while remote work might make you more efficient, your argument that productivity offsets a reduction in work hours might not hold up if you get an asshole manager or project director that has good surveillance of your workflow. A manager would see the underused time and adjust your workload accordingly to maximize your productivity, so I'm just saying you might not want to make it obvious to any superiors that they can extract more labor from you. Though, I think that's generally good advice for any job! Protect your time.
if you get an asshole manager or project director that has good surveillance of your workflow. A manager would see the underused time and adjust your workload accordingly to maximize your productivity
There is no accounting for shitty bosses. And this happens in the office as well.
I also don't see why you seem to be arguing against work from home. Most people who do work from home are pretty happy with it, the only ones who tend to not be happy with it are corporate execs. And I've already stated why I think they don't like it.
And my main point remains the same. The problem is that corporations and companies think they own your time. That is the problem. They are paying you for work they need done, your time is your own. Or at least it should be.
Honestly, what pretty much all office workers truly need is a union. They all need to unionize and develop contracts with these companies that outline exactly what they can ask of them and what they get in return.
I agree with your last point, and while I'm not against working from home—in fact, I think it's fantastic for employees—I don't believe it's equally great for businesses. The shift to remote work has really highlighted just how much of the work people do is, in Graeber's words, "bullshit." As David Graeber aptly said, "It's as if someone were out there making up pointless jobs just for the sake of keeping us all working."
This realization is a bit uncomfortable for many companies because it suggests that a significant part of their operations might not be as crucial as they thought. Instead of streamlining and rethinking these roles, they're currently expanding managerial surveillance. Companies are now using intrusive monitoring tools that track every keystroke, mouse movement, and even how long you're inactive. Eventually that could reasonably lead to efficiency firings and that "comfort buffer" that WFH has created will be replaced with additional tasks and expectations.
This heightened surveillance turns the promise of flexibility and freedom that WFH initially offered into a kind of digital panopticon, where employees feel like they're constantly being watched. It raises concerns that we might be heading toward a hyper-Fordist nightmare—a future where the efficiency being chased at the expense of worker well-being is given new and more powerful tools, and the lines between work and personal life become hopelessly blurred.
It also seems like an obvious answer is to dramatically decrease salaried employees who take long lunches and quit work early because they've "completed their tasks," to task-dependent contracts with assumption (but no guarantee) of renewal. It sounds like you're in the sweet spot between the previous reality of work and the possible future reality, and I'm just saying you should ride and extend that situation as long as you can.
The early excitement about working from home could unintentionally lead to significant downsides for employees. Invasive monitoring can ramp up stress, erode privacy, and make people feel dehumanized. Plus, the loss of trust between employers and employees can hurt morale and actually decrease productivity over time. It seems important to address these issues now to prevent remote work from becoming a tool for unprecedented employee exploitation, which is why I think of all your commentary so far, your last paragraph here is probably the most agreeable and important.
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Do office workers actually work? No, but they make coffee, collaborate, and network.
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My coworkers recounting the oh so cute exploits of their oh so cute grandchildren in excruciating detail is very productive, I'm sure. Definitely makes the extra long commute worthwhile for me.
I love the day ending and my chores already being done. I log out and it's like I'm completely done and can go fuck off somewhere.
In a lot of meetings I’m expected to be in I mostly just listen and jump in to answer specific questions. When working from home I like to be active with chores during the meetings, I’ll just take them on my phone. Sometimes I do motorcycle maintenance! It helps me concentrate much better than watching talking heads.
Me as a programmer
- Exhausted working on something realizing I'm no longer being productive and stuck on a problem.
- Decide to take a break and go empty the dishwasher
- Comes back more refreshed and almost immediately solve the problem.
Edit: Side note - companies I worked at that had dishwashers also expected employees to take turns emptying it / loading dishes others didn't put in it.
Production went up 15% in my department by going from 2 days in office to fully remote. Some employees still have to go to the office for disciplinary reasons, but that's a manager's job to make it happen, if managers are too dumb to realize some employees aren't working then it's a management issue, not a remote work issue.
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I'll absolutely turn off the camera and do laundry or make lunch during a Teams meeting. I'm still on the audio and participate. I'm just able to be productive at work AND at home simultaneously.
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I can admit I delay work more from home than I did when I was at the office. I do about the same amount overall I just don't get around to it as quickly.
But the company I'm with would also have to pay me 20-30% more to go into the office as I have better offers for that already and I'd still probably just hop to another company that lets me work from home for a similar salary.
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You pay me a salary to solve problems, not to warm a chair. Make me hourly if you want that. My rate is quite steep, I assure you.
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