this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2024
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chapotraphouse

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The left's main vulnerability is splitting and infighting. We are terrible at it. This is known.

To build revolutionary change, a revolutionary party is needed. It must do its work and carry on its work. In the military, they taught me that the number one priority is preserving your ability to fight. It's ok if you have setbacks, lose equipment or men or tactical position or advantage; but it's a catastrophe if you lose the capacity to fight.

Leftist infighting is what robs the movement of its ability to fight on. It kills the movements. (The Buddhists know this, and consider 'creating a schism in the sangha' the supreme sin. That's a tangent, but the Buddhists have maintained an ideological movement for 26 centuries so they're doing something right.)

We need to mock people who shame other leftists for impurity, who insult them for making mistakes. Liu Shaoqi said: "The attitude of some Party members towards these shortcomings and mistakes and towards those comrades who have incorrect ideas is one of “bitter hatred and gall”. They lightly sever all relations with comrades who have committed some mistake and whom they attempt to expel from the Party outright."

It is ok for comrades to make mistakes in action, and to have mistaken beliefs. That's the completely normal, inevitable part of having a movement. In fact, that's all a movement is: listening to people's beliefs, listening to their wrong beliefs, correcting them, unifying the thought of the party, unity makes strength. It is not ok to have incorrect ideas of “bitter hatred and gall”, and lightly sever all relations with comrades who have committed some mistake.

MAO MADE 30% MISTAKES, INCLUDING CAUSING THE BIGGEST FAMINE IN HUMAN HISTORY!!! If you can forgive that, you can forgive someone who made an off-colour tweet when they were a teenager.

People who try to cancel comrades for stuff they did/said in the distant past, or for non-core differences of opinion, are dong the imperialists work for them: dismantling the socialist movement.

PS: the aim is always to have a cohesive, united, strong movement with the correct views. Anything that serves the aim is good. Anything that wrecks the aim is bad.

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 46 points 1 month ago (5 children)

The Chinese Famine of 1906 - 07 was probably larger from a mortality standpoint, though it didn't last as long. The so-called Great Chinese Famine is only the greatest if you take maximalist anticommunist numbers, and recent scholarship is generally in the direction of it being significantly overestimated. Both that death toll and Mao's "30%" (while he did make serious mistakes, let me be clear) are things that were basically encouraged to be exaggerated even in China itself because of the Dengist revolt and new orthodoxy needing to discourage support for Mao-era policy.

What I'm saying is that your anti-wrecking post contains wrecking.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 43 points 1 month ago (2 children)

What I'm saying is that your anti-wrecking post contains wrecking.

In a nutshell what vampire's asking for is some sort of hexbear party line, which if taken seriously would yet again lead to a big site-wide argument and probably bannings because its trying to take what isn't a serious website in a serious direction.

my god, we've argued over stacking fucking rocks and are currently in a cold war over rule 8 of the dunk tank. I do not want to even remotely want to touch contentious theoretical topics - such as the sino-soviet difference on the concept of the national question and the right to self-determination. Also shut the fuck up we're not even going to talk about it, that's just something that would open pandoras box if the most arsonistic people got their hands on the concept - and have a gigantic shitflinging fest to end all gigantic shitflinging fests until in the name of wrecking wreckers for wrecking we stumble ourselves into a new gigantic shitflinging fest.

[–] Sulvor@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Struggle sessions struggle session

[–] LENINSGHOSTFACEKILLA@hexbear.net 27 points 1 month ago

tldr, this is a shitposting website. Taking strong stances on minute specifics and labeling anyone who disagrees goes against the whole picture of hogs with shit on their testicles thing.

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 21 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I refuse to partake in any struggle session

[–] Sulvor@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I’ll mark you down as anti-struggle sessions in the struggle sessions struggle session then

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 19 points 1 month ago

This is wrecker behavior!

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[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 18 points 1 month ago

i-love-not-thinking LOOK AT THE TIME! what-time-is-it

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[–] Moonworm@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

We should try to stick together and not quibble over little stuff

You misrepresented Mao and are actually wrecking

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 11 points 1 month ago

It's almost like that first sentence isn't what I was responding to

[–] Vampire@hexbear.net 11 points 1 month ago

Thank you for your input

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[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 41 points 1 month ago

Everyone I ideologically disagree with is a wrecker.

[–] MayoPete@hexbear.net 38 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Someone plz wreck this bussy panting

[–] Vampire@hexbear.net 12 points 1 month ago
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[–] bumpusoot@hexbear.net 33 points 1 month ago

Hear me out hexbears, we have an infighting problem, therefore we should infight the infighters.

I agree we should forgive comrades more for making mistakes. I disagree that a philosophy of 'bully the bullies' is a sustainable approach to maintaining a community.

[–] Sulvor@hexbear.net 32 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

We should do weekly Survivor-like votes on who is a wrecker

“The party has spoken, it’s time for you to go”

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[–] sub_ubi@lemmy.ml 30 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Shaming wreckers is infighting, op.

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 39 points 1 month ago

I'm going to rob something from your house.

[–] Civility@hexbear.net 12 points 1 month ago
[–] gay_king_prince_charles@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I love how leftists will agree on 99% of things, but become sworn enemies with other leftists over AI or the ideal brand of masks or outdoor cats or some shit. I love purity testing and infighting so much, and COINTELPRO has been great.

[–] REgon@hexbear.net 19 points 1 month ago

Knew a guy who wouldn't volunteer at a soup kitchen because it was run by trots and he was an anarchist. Such a weird hangup. Like, okay dude they think society should be structured this way after the revolution and you think it should be that way? Okay, what does that have to do with making soup for the houseless?

[–] Vampire@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago

This comrade gets it.

It's about the economic base. If you believe in worker-control, you are a comrade.

[–] AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social 23 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Alphabet infiltration of leftist movements has been incredibly successful historically speaking.

If you wanna know what kind of behavior to be on the lookout for, or what kind of behavior to watch yourself for (it's easier than you think to accidentally help your enemies) check out the sabateurs guide hosted by our alphabetic friends themselves.

Infighting, spurred by capitalists, has historically weakened and destroyed leftist movements very successfully. In order to have any chance cohesion is paramount.

[–] Josephine_Spiro@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Alphabet infiltration? Like the google parent company?

[–] Abracadaniel@hexbear.net 21 points 1 month ago (2 children)

"alphabet soup agencies" FBI, CIA, NSA, DOJ.

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[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I like your post, but there's hella different sects of Buddhism.

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[–] gay_king_prince_charles@hexbear.net 21 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

I do not care if someone is "good" or even a socialist. I care if their actions will contribute to our aid socialism. I don't care if Norman Finkelstein is transphobic. I don't care what George Galloway said about this, that, or the other thing. I don't care what any historical figure said about gay people. If they work to contribute to socialism, they are a comrade.

[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

I love how leftists will agree on 99% of things but become sworn enemies with other leftists over AI or masks or outdoor cats or some shit.

I don't care if Norman Finkelstein is transphobic.

What the fuck are you talking about, your other comment is about outdoor cats, now you talk about transphobia as if both are remotely the same thing. You have zero credibility if that is how you see the world.

Building socialism by supporting opinions that directly harm the people you want to help. The most generous take here is you're completely lost.

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[–] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 21 points 1 month ago (1 children)

THE BIGGEST FAMINE IN HUMAN HISTORY!!!

citations-needed

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[–] FungiDebord@hexbear.net 21 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The wreckers are the people who make witch-hunting threads like this.

[–] AmericaDelendaEst@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago

The real wreckers were the friends we made along the way

[–] heggs_bayer@hexbear.net 19 points 1 month ago (1 children)

What makes someone a wrecker in the context of a forum/shitposting space like Hexbear? We're not a party or org, so I'm not even sure what the equivalent to splitting the party would be here.

[–] Vampire@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

Well I'm talking more about 'the Left' than hexbear

That would require self crit and personal growth and I’m just not about that.

[–] REgon@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

I still think it's bad that wrecker-jacketing is now no longer allowed. There's so many obvious wreckers that just get away with shit because people don't think about it anymore.
Can't even post fedposting anymore. Because of woke >:(

[–] LowEffortWrecker@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago
[–] Acute_Engles@hexbear.net 16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

People who upbear the reply to my comment but don't upbear my comment are wreckers

[–] Owl@hexbear.net 46 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But my reply comment is really clever.

[–] Goblin@hexbear.net 16 points 1 month ago

when the imperialist cop tells me cancel culture sucks makima-think

[–] HumanAnarchist@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I agree. We anarchists and communists need to get along. We have the very similar end goals and all know that the bigger enemy is the current system.

[–] Dickey_Butts@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago (8 children)

I don't trust any anarchist that hates communists and I don't trust any communist that hates anarchists. Simple as.

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[–] Homer_Simpson@hexbear.net 14 points 1 month ago

We need to mock people who shame other leftists for impurity

Boy I just love purity testing

[–] Hexboare@hexbear.net 12 points 1 month ago

In the military

Where's my binder of struggle session arguments

[–] Civility@hexbear.net 12 points 1 month ago
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