English doesn't even go up at the end of sentences for all questions, just yes or no ones.
this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2024
78 points (87.5% liked)
No Stupid Questions
35895 readers
1286 users here now
No such thing. Ask away!
!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Credits
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Good catch - WH-questions tend to have a pitch drop instead.
Now thinking, Portuguese and Italian seem to follow the same pattern as English.
Same for German.
Do you really think thats true?
Do you really think thats true?
"Rhetorical" questions - like this one - are specially interesting because, while they follow the syntax of a genuine question, they're pragmatically assertions. You're implying "this is not true", even if you're phrasing it as a question.
And that phrasal pitch contour that you see in yes/no questions is dictated by the pragmatical purpose of the utterance, so if the "question" is not actually a question, it doesn't get it.
I read this as you emphasizing true, not pitching up.
need that exponent formatting on lemmy
Hmmm...^this?^
Sorry; maybe try again and think of some other cases?
No
You sure about that?
I love you guys
Could you give some specific examples of questions in English that would not be asked with a rising tone at the end?
What's your name? How old are you? Where are you from?
They seem to have a rise-drop, at least when I say them.
"How old are you?" is interesting because the rise is on the third-last word ("old"). But "How old is your daughter?" has the rise in the first syllable of daughter.
That's just emphasis. You can tell because you can shift it to another word.
- What's your name? (more pointed)
- How old are you? (as if it's now suddenly of concern)
- Where are you from? (maybe the person has an unusual accent)
- Where are you from? (more pointed)
- How old is your daughter? (shifting from discussing someone else's daughter)
Switching the emphasis on one word can completely change the meaning of a phrase, there's one example I love: "I never said she stole his money"
- I never said she stole his money (someone else did)
- I never said she stole his money (absolutely not true)
- I never said she stole his money (I wrote it down)
- I never said she stole his money (it was someone else)
- I never said she stole his money (she might have just borrowed it)
- I never said she stole his money (it was someone else's)
- I never said she stole his money (she stole something else)
I wonder if it's more because we frame the question by altering the structure to indicate the appropriate response.
We could just as well ask "you are from where?" Or "your name is what?" That matches the expected sentence structure of a response, and the natural pitch rises.
But the default stress towards the end of the question is what makes it a question.
You can move the stress to another word for emphasis on yes-no questions, too, similarly removing the "rising intonation" that makes a question.
E.g., "Do you want any cheese^?" vs. "Do you WANT any cheese?" (Falling intonation after "want")
I'm totally with you. I think it is somewhat speaker dependent, but that is how I would say those questions.
What's your NAme
How OLD (are you)?
Where are you FROm?
load more comments
(3 replies)
"Who is my daddy and what does he do?" actually seems to drop a little bit.
load more comments
(1 replies)
So the pets recognize it and respond.
Russian does, because the rising intonation is the only thing that differentiates a statement from a question in many cases. Eg "You a good driver." Vs "You a good driver?" Both are grammatically correct, and only the intonation makes it a question.
Vietnamese doesn't really rise at the end of the question unless that's the way the last word is anyway. Some questions end with a low sound. Some questions are evident by a small word cluster (sounds like "Fai La") after the subject but before the object that basically mean "this is a question and not a statement." Or "I'm asking not telling"
They don't.
The general pattern seems cross-linguistically consistent.
It's not even consistent in English.
Yeah - I noticed it after reading your other comment. Fair point.
Coupling it with info from the Mandarin article that I've linked, it seems to apply to declarative (yes-no) questions only.
I was expecting Mandarin to be an exception, since the language uses pitch to encode different words; apparently it isn't, the speakers simply "abstract" the phonemic vs. phrasal pitch variations as two different things, when interpreting the sentence. Check figure 6.
And while there is a particle overtly conveying "this is a question", ⟨吗⟩ /ma⁰/ (the "0" indicates neutral tone), it seems that you can couple it with an assertive phrasal pitch to convey rhetorical questions. And other languages (like e.g. German and English, that overtly mark questions with verb fronting) show a similar pattern.
I also found some literature claiming that it might be cross-linguistically consistent
The most important observations are the following:
- pitch tends to decline from the beginning of an IP [intonational phrase] to the end, a tendency known as declination;
- the beginning of an IP may be marked by a local sharp rise in pitch or “reset”;
- in IPs that are utterance-final and/or in statements, there may be a local drop in pitch at the end of the IP in addition to any overall declination spanning the IP as a whole;
- in IPs that are in questions and/or are not utterance-final, declination may be moderated, suspended or even reversed, i.e. the overall trend may be less steeply declining, level, or even slightly rising;
- in addition to exhibiting reduced declination, non-final and interrogative IPs may also have a local rise in pitch at the end, or at least have no local drop.
The validity of these observations, as general tendencies, is not in doubt.
The article also lays out some potential explanations for this. The basic gist of it is, nobody knows why but everyone has a guess.
EDIT: as another user (ABCDE) correctly pointed out, keep in mind that this works differently for open-ended vs. yes/no questions.
Thanks for providing these studies; that's all quite fascinating
Thanks !
Um Chinese may want to have a word with you
I'm learning Chinese now and it seems to have a similar change in pitch as European languages when asking a question. 你说汉语吗？
That’s just a coincidence. 吗, meaning “what?”, is pronounced má which has the ascending tone. This is not true of all questions in Chinese. For example: 谁在你的右边 meaning “who is on your right?” does not end with 吗, and 边 is pronounced bian which has the flat tone.
Hi! I'm Chinese and this is incorrect. 吗 (mā) and 边 (biān) actually have the same flat intonation, so there isn't a rise in pitch in either of the questions. To answer OP, the word 吗 in particular is just typically used to end off some sentences in order to differentiate whether they are statements or questions, ie. 你要回家。(You want to go home.) vs 你要回家吗？(Do you want to go home?)
Vietnamese doesn't. The rising tone that you hear at the end of an English language question can change the literal meaning of a word in Vietnamese.
How does Vietnamese indicate when a question is being asked?
They append the word "no" to the statement.
"How are you?" Is "you're good, no?" But the word "no" does not have a rising tone.
Tonal languages are hard for non-tonal language speakers to pick up because of this. On the flip side, it can be tough for tonal language speakers to grasp the tonal inflections in English, and sometimes speak like robots before they understand how to use them.
There are languages that use words or particles of words to indicate a question, for example Turkish and chinese languages.
As I checked from an article, at least in Mandarin the usage of particles happens alongside the change in intonation, not at the expense of it.
Also note that even [some? all?] Germanic languages show something similar - but instead of a particle, you get a syntactical movement (verb fronting) overtly marking the question. Examples:
| English | German |
|---|---|
| This is an apple. | Das ist ein Apfel. |
| Is this an apple? | Ist das ein Apfel? |
| The cat meows. | Die Katze miaut. |
| Does the cat meow? | Miaut die Katze? |
In English this is slightly obscured by do-support being obligatory for most verbs, but note how it's the same process - if you were to insert the "do" without a question, in the third sentence, it would end as "the cat does meow".
Your second question has a general answer. Most languages use tones, which means tones change in the course of a sentence. If the tone changes for all sentences, then it also changes for questions. I know that's not what you were trying to ask, but that's the answer to the question you did ask.
If you need a way to indicate that something is a question, you could do what English does... You could use question words at the beginning of the sentence. You could change word order. You could add extra words... Which is to say, you're not dependent on intonation, though you could use it if you want to.
Semi-related question since people have shown counterexample for OP's question: Are there English sentences where the tone goes up at the end, but is not a question? It feels like that particular tone is exclusive for questions.
Anything spoken by a valley girl
That's a sexist stereotype, but it's true for anyone feeling really unsure about their statement. You don't even have to change the note at the end of the sentence. Could just trail off... or add a whole new half sentence like "thoughts? "
view more: next ›