this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024
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[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago

Humans, such compassionate creatures, capable of empathy & love.

[–] regul@hexbear.net 66 points 1 day ago (2 children)

They feel the same about the homeless. Literally every west coast subreddit, ostensibly full of "liberals" will upvote comments like "It would be much cheaper to just house them all in tents in the desert."

Like they want to do fucking Manzanar for homeless people.

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 53 points 1 day ago (3 children)

The maddening part is that it's still cheaper to put them into houses but that would require you to admit they're human.

[–] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 38 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The cruelty is required to scare others into submission.

[–] NephewAlphaBravo@hexbear.net 22 points 1 day ago

"good serfs work for peanuts, otherwise you could end up like The Bad People" porky-happy

[–] miz@hexbear.net 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

porky-scared-flipped and give up our reserve army of labor? how will we keep wages down?

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[–] AernaLingus@hexbear.net 17 points 1 day ago

You fool, you haven't considered the property values!

[–] VHS@hexbear.net 14 points 1 day ago

Yeah, it's disturbing to see the uptick in anti-homeless rhetoric. You hear them being called "zombies" and "not people".

[–] roux@hexbear.net 46 points 1 day ago (2 children)

"Almost half of American adult children polled think we should use brown people as slaves and force them to live in cages."

[–] Adkml@hexbear.net 33 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I always love when dems suddenly lose the concept of statistics or the concept of polling.

"Only 27% of the country voted for republicans last election so that means that 73% of the country supports democrats."

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 23 hours ago

Instead they think they have to adjust everything to try and get that 27%

[–] roux@hexbear.net 25 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Somewhere on reddit, some dork is arguing that 5,352 people is not a good enough sample size.

[–] anarcho_blinkenist@hexbear.net 22 points 1 day ago (4 children)

it literally isn't a good sample size, especially for their selection process in the breakdown of a place as diverse and varied in peoples and living conditions and environments like the US and its 350 million people. It's a religious-focused NGO for "christian nationalism in politics", has vanishingly few young people, does terrible breakdowns in the full report and tells us nothing about class or income, self-selects for those who are on consistent addresses in USPS lines with internet access who would be arsed to do these surveys (as well as has hundreds of self-selected opt-ins), the report is trash by a non-profit for "finding the intersection of religion and politics for clergy and the public"

[–] GlueBear@hexbear.net 24 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

No, it's actually an excellent sample size. This study is absolutely worrying because it was conducted well.

https://www.checkmarket.com/sample-size-calculator/

This is a sample size calculator,

Punching in 350M for population size, 2% margin of error, and 95% Confidence interval we get a necessary sample size of at least 2401, this study had a sample size of 5352

As for their margin of error, using the above population and confidence interval values but adding in 5352 for the actual sample size we get a calculated margin of error of 1.34%

This study is valid and its findings should worry everyone.

[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 28 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

It's a perfectly good sample size, you're absolutely right, but @anarcho_blinkenist@hexbear.net raises good questions about whether it's an appropriately random sample.

Edit: They use weighting to put things closer to what the general population actually looks like, but here's what their unweighted numbers are:

[–] GlueBear@hexbear.net 18 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Okay I see the criticism, but would the more honest title:

approximately 47% of Americans aged 30 and older believe immigrants should be put in militarized camps

really have changed the conclusions and implications?

It's fucking disgusting no matter how you look at it.

I suppose that number might go down to 30% at best if 18-29 year olds were properly sampled.

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Facism is here-er

[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 53 points 1 day ago (4 children)

And the Democrats, while not in favor of the camps, will gladly support them once the law has been passed

Because that's how government works!

[–] FortifiedAttack@hexbear.net 29 points 1 day ago (1 children)

geordi-no militarized camps

geordi-yes holding facilities

[–] NephewAlphaBravo@hexbear.net 30 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] SadArtemis@hexbear.net 15 points 1 day ago

This is probably it oooaaaaaaauhhh

[–] Rojo27@hexbear.net 24 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I think they may just feel like "militarized" is problematic. They already don't have a problem with kids in cages, especially after the Biden admin changed the name and painted pretty murals on the facilities.

[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 20 points 1 day ago

It's called bipartisanship sweaty maybe if you redfash tankies learned about it you'd build power more successfully good-morning

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[–] aaro@hexbear.net 42 points 1 day ago (1 children)

yeah I'm in favor of putting immigrants in militarized camps - the kind where we give them military weapons and military training to defend themselves against the evil KKKracker menace

[–] Zvyozdochka@hexbear.net 20 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Well according to trump-anguish they already have "AK-47 Supers" that not even the US military could get their hands on, so we're already half way there! amerikkka

[–] TheLastHero@hexbear.net 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

AK-47 Supers

Nvidia needs to cool it with these new GPU names

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[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 33 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Starting to feel like I just don't belong here

[–] NephewAlphaBravo@hexbear.net 37 points 1 day ago (2 children)

why should you leave, they're the ones that suck

[–] miz@hexbear.net 24 points 1 day ago

for me it's because I love trains and hate driving, and even the most pedestrian-friendly American cities are still car-centric

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 20 points 1 day ago

If I knew how to computer I would spend the rest of the day making office space emojis

[–] CommunistBear@hexbear.net 18 points 1 day ago

Every day I wish there was a place that was willing to take me so I could gtfo of this place

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The population of rome eventually emptied out to 1% of it's peak population during the roman empire's long decline. People either died or left. If and when it's possible, leaving is better.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 15 points 1 day ago

Me, living in the only place within 40 miles of my workplace I can afford. yikes-1yikes-3

[–] GnastyGnuts@hexbear.net 25 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The "undocumented" part is mostly there as an ass-cover imo. Am I the only one perceiving a growing hostility towards even legal immigrants?

[–] GlueBear@hexbear.net 13 points 1 day ago

What do you think the push for denaturalization is for? They're not interested in the mask.

[–] GeorgeZBush@hexbear.net 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The fact that this headline even exists, that it's presented almost casually, is proof that barbarism is the future.

[–] Antiwork@hexbear.net 17 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Dems see this and go well we must put more kids in cages then

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

That's a remarkable number of Democrats who aren't concentration camp enjoyers. Not that their elected politicians care.

I hate how many so-called "independents" are just GOP chuds that want to dodge the label and maybe smoke weed. ancap-good

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[–] anarcho_blinkenist@hexbear.net 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

this was posted before, it's a 5000 person survey by a non-profit for "finding the intersection of religion in society for clergy and the public" (hence the weird religious breakdown), which they got by just emailing people on a USPS list with a few hundred self-selected opt-ins on top. Which also inherently excludes a bunch of people, like those who've moved a lot or recently, any and all homeless, lumpenized people and people in distant or ad-hoc or delapidated communities with vague USPS lines and addresses, those who don't have internet access, those in prisons, and those who don't check their email, and those who wouldn't be arsed with these kinds of surveys by religion-in-politics non-profits, and countless other groups. Inherently. The study also has no breakdowns for class or income, if they live in rural, urban, or suburban environs, or even generation breakdowns for most of the questions including this one (but does for some others, weirdly); and the 18-29 age group is vanishingly small compared to the others; and just a bunch of god awful things. Which is shocking to be taken at face value, this trash 5000 person "christian nationalism" survey as "percent of Americans" like the survey says. And then you get such god awful trash takes like in this thread of "if only I'd organized harder" absolutely anti-marxist nonsense, nihilist trash.

[–] anarcho_blinkenist@hexbear.net 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

That comment pissed me off, the whole trend of doomerist opportunism too. this site is so often just a black hole that no one is interested in fighting against and I'm fucking myself up wasting my time trying in the tide of it. It's an active negation of revolutionary consciousness in an environment which needs it cultivated and brought into the real material world. So many people seem near universally more interested in uncritical and angry insular bias-spirals and opportunist defeatism, opportunist self-confirmation of 'nothing to be done' and 'might as well flee' (which shows a petty-bourgeois affordance), and the worst: opportunism-masquerading-as-principle then shit out onto others in a misery-loves-company kind of way, than anything else constructive. Just straight-line-segment-from-the-curve understandings, as fuel for undialectical projections of doomsaying, so do-nothing opportunists can say "SEE?!?!?!" at whatever they think gives them the opportunity and get applause from other do-nothings, which facilitates the furthering the comparative growth of reaction more than the reactionaries are capable of facilitating themselves than if people were interested in constructive active forward-moving analysis of things.

Socialists in the real world (which are exponentially growing in number every month and have been for almost a decade) I've worked with don't talk like people here, by and large engage more healthily about problems in society, and are more interested in engaging critically along lines of where the problems are and aren't in given things, and working the angles to separate them along dividing lines. This site is 75+% online ultra-leftism wearing the mask of something else. There are people who have been being tortured in US prisons for decades for their activism who have more revolutionary spirit, optimism, fluidity, criticality, and desire for and KNOWLEDGE OF whole-inclusive revolutionary change, and active political consciousness and preparedness to fight by it than the metaphysical one-sided self-satisfied petty-bourgeois-oriented shit I see here.

"iF oNlY i HaD oRgAniZeD mOrE~" People who say this shit are do-nothings. People who support and further it are do-nothings, thinking the people who turned out in the Floyd uprisings, the ever-growing militant labor and tenant movements, and even students occupying colleges at the cost of their petty bourgeois futures over Palestine (A THING WHICH DOESN'T DIRECTLY EFFECT THEM, compared to Vietnam protests where they were being DRAFTED


a MARK OF ELEVATED CONSCIOUSNESS) are nothing compared to these 5000 home-owners (or otherwise long-term tenants) who decide to partake in a shitty religious email survey? Because, and not just from this, that's what I get and what I hear, more than I get or hear anything else on this site. I wonder, where have these people been this past 10 years, if they have not been on the street seeing what I've seen in just my small part of it? They seem to be seeing less than comrades writing from inside prison walls somehow.

Yes the US, particularly in its bourgeois and petty bourgeois, is largely reactionary, we know this (without this trash 'American Academy of Religion' member survey which should be thrown in the trash); particularly in the ongoing historical inheritance of colonial relations, and that this is an avenue where false-consciousness gets pushed when alternatives are not posited and constructed due to these historical relations and its inherited contradictions. But Christ. I've seen more things and comments on this site, whose only purpose and only constructed framing is to uncritically reinforce insular and doomsaying biases as dead-end metaphysical 'truths', to spiral people into do-nothing emptiness and defeatism before any battle has even been fought by ANY of the people saying these things; than I've seen constructive forward-moving dialectical considerations. I've seen more attempts by do-nothings to self-indulgently self-satisfyingly panic-monger and doomsay about their imagined reality "out there" where they do not stand or in some dreamed-up future, to inflame destructive and opportunist impulses in people to make more do-nothings (or worse), than positive construction toward anything


or even serious Marxist criticality toward circumstances or material put forward, as long as it confirms OPPORTUNIST, ULTRA-LEFT BIASES and helps people feel like their do-nothingism is somehow 'principled analysis' and they can feel self-satisfied in saying so. Which is effectively reactionary, discouraging socialists of the possibility and reality of change being built, and passing it off as 'principled analysis' based on one's own shallow and actively-sought bias-confirmation as a metaphysical truth, rather than developing working and critical dialectical consideration in one's analysis of material circumstances and events, their internal components, and relations to other circumstances and events as a whole living reality and unfolding history in which we are all partaking in in the ways we do.

The flight of some people from the underground could have been the result of their fatigue and dispiritedness. Such individuals may only be pitied; they should be helped because their dispiritedness will pass and there will again appear an urge to get away from philistinism, away from the liberals and the liberal-labour policy, to the working-class underground. But when the fatigued and dispirited use journalism as their platform and announce that their flight is not a manifestation of fatigue, or weakness, or intellectual woolliness, but that it is to their credit, and then put the blame on the “ineffective,” “worthless,” “moribund,” etc., underground, these runaways then become disgusting renegades, apostates. These runaways then become the worst advisers for the working-class movement and therefore its dangerous enemies.

back-to-me speech-l

Log off and join an org

[–] CarbonScored@hexbear.net 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I very much agree with the sentiment, and have been considering my own effortposting about it. The doomerism here is unbearable at times, and content is frequently actually warped just to seem worse than it is for the sake of having something to be angry at. Even when I make positive posts the top comment will immediately "but actually it's bad because X".

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[–] blobjim@hexbear.net 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

can we see the over all breakdown not by made up American political groups media outlets always categorize people into. The only reason to split it by political party is to make right-wingers seem more important or popular than they actually are.

[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This is all they give us other than party affiliation and religion:

The vast majority of Americans who most trust far-right news (91%) or Fox News (82%) favor militarized encampments for undocumented immigrants, compared with 44% of Americans who do not watch TV news and 36% who most trust mainstream TV news.

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I've met probably a dozen people who call themselves independent and when you get to know them they are indistinguishable from Maga dudes. I think it's a way for people who don't like being called racist/homophobic/ etc but fully support those policies to distance themselves.

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I can understand dems being down with the fascism, but look at my independents dawg.

[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 26 points 1 day ago

Most "independents" are "libertarians" and never Trump Republicans so it makes sense

[–] RiotDoll@hexbear.net 17 points 1 day ago
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