I really don't like the censorship of speech from either side. People have a right to choose their own words and suffer the consequences for the words they choose.
this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2024
399 points (98.5% liked)
Technology
34894 readers
989 users here now
This is the official technology community of Lemmy.ml for all news related to creation and use of technology, and to facilitate civil, meaningful discussion around it.
Ask in DM before posting product reviews or ads. All such posts otherwise are subject to removal.
Rules:
1: All Lemmy rules apply
2: Do not post low effort posts
3: NEVER post naziped*gore stuff
4: Always post article URLs or their archived version URLs as sources, NOT screenshots. Help the blind users.
5: personal rants of Big Tech CEOs like Elon Musk are unwelcome (does not include posts about their companies affecting wide range of people)
6: no advertisement posts unless verified as legitimate and non-exploitative/non-consumerist
7: crypto related posts, unless essential, are disallowed
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
How do you people propose to call them? Expansionists? Colonialists? Genocidists?
Israeli supremacists
They already banned a swathe of pro-palestinian political streamers in the run up to the US election, so this is likely retroactive reasoning.
Okay, now streamers can get more creative when refering to a zionist. I think that 'bibi's removed' is a good term.
They probably don't like zionazi either. Neither this nor zionist is a code word for Jew. The entire political class, the great majority being Christian, and their donors are zionist, because going with the flow of AIPAC is path to get your candidates to also serve your oligarchist or Christofascist protections.
Netanyahuists or likudists or Mossadists or Epsteinists ok?
BTW, Chuck Shumer is going to allow a vote in Senate over this "criticism of zionism is anti semitic" law in US. Reddit also supports mods who recomend permabans over criticism of zionism already.
Waiting for the free-speech absolutists to boycott twitch for this (they won't)
The same way I don't think we should capitulate to framing "cracker" as a slur, or to framing "black lives matter" as a racist thing to say, I don't think we should capitulate to framing things like "from the river to the sea" or "zionist" as antisemitic.
But, as a thought experiment, let's indulge in this doublespeak trash. What is a good alternative? So far I've got:
- Israeli colonizers
- Jewish supremacists
- genocidal sacks of shit
- Israeli apartheidists
- Isreal expansionists
- Israeli warmongerers
- people in favor of the genocide and apartheid committed by Israel (in full, every time you need to say zionist)
- modern day nazis
- zionazis (technically not zionist!)
So all of this liberal crybaby nomenclature trash aside, I actually do think "zionist" is in itself a fairly useless term for the Israeli apartheid question (as Norman Finkelstein and Judith Butler do too). While one faction of zionism pursued the nakba and massacres from fairly early on, and while this faction has been quite successful, there are other notions of zionism which do not entail murdering children or colonizing a country. When Netanyahu and Chomsky can both legitimately refer to themselves as zionists, I think it's clear that zionism is too broad a term to be useful in the current ongoing genocide and the ethnic cleansing that has been going on for the better part of a century.
the problem is that about 75% of people have no idea what happened during the partition plan and 20% who do think what the Zionists did were justified (even pre partition/pre war/war time(
I'm partial to three, m'self.
These are indeed very good alternatives
load more comments
(1 replies)
"How dare you use a word that means 'genocidal, imperialist, apartheid, ethnostate' in a way that explicitly means 'genocidal, imperialist, apartheid, ethnostate'!" - Twitch, active supporters and enablers of genocidal, imperialist, apartheid ethnostates.
Do a lot of slurs have a wikipedia page?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/removed
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetback_(slur)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur)
So yeah. Not that 'Zionist' is a slur
I actually do think “zionist” is in itself a fairly useless term for the Israeli apartheid question (as Norman Finkelstein and Judith Butler do too).
Do any of the forms of zionism (a belief that they should own the land) involve market purchases of the land they would like? (instead of settler colonial theft?)
Yes, probably most of them...
But Zionism isn't a religion, it's a nationalist movement.
How about "genocidal assholes?" Can they still say that?
Once genz matures, public opinion on Israel will shift. I hope Israel enters the "and find out" stage.
Fuck 'em, disgusting parasites leeching on US might to commit a genocide. Americans will pay for this too...
next 9/11: why would anybody do this to us 🤡
sad reality many of us did not sign up to fund the genocide but AIPAC was able to infiltrated state and corpos from within while avoiding foreign agent registration.
our spooks are fucking useless...
Calling zionism what it is shouldn't be discouraged with dog whistles masquerading as conduct policies.
At the same time I'd like to remind folks that not all Jewish people subscribe to Zionism.
There are a couple Jewish lead organizations that fight for the freedom of Palestine and have been very critical of Israel for many years.
Jewish Voices for Peace is one group. I wonder how they'd feel about Twitches new policy. I'm genuinely curious what their opinion would be.
Edit - corrected Jewish Voices for Peace
Which makes the blob anti-semitic for saying anti-zionism is anti-semitic.
At the same time I’d like to remind folks that not all Jewish people subscribe to Zionism.
Further to this, the majority of zionists are christians.
I know there's a lot of Christians involved but how do we know it's the majority? Young Israelis are raised largely around Zionist propaganda after all.
There's about 100 million evangelical christians in the US, and a LifeWay poll in 2017 showed that about 80% essentially considered themselves zionists. That's 80 million. There's 15.8 million jews worldwide. So the non-Jewish zionists outweigh Jewish zionists by a fair margin. Heck, they outweigh the zionist and the non-zionist jews taken together by a beefy margin, even.
That's an insane number. Must be a very broad definition of Zionist.
oh no, statistics that challenge my world view! Quick, let's not look into it at all and move the goal posts!
Could you at least try to engage in this discussion? Or maybe come up with any evidence supporting your world view?
A different definition of the term isn't a different worldview.
Also, not immediately spinning every exchange into a full debate isn't a critical character flaw. Unlike being an insufferable ass about your dissatisfaction with that fact.
Though I'd take look at that poll about 80% of Christians being "essentially" Zionists if you'd link to it.
the majority of zionists are christians.
us braindead fundies are numbered in dozens of millions and they largely support Zionism.
in rural US, radio glorifying genocide... it is very disturbing.
load more comments
(11 replies)
Never used it and never will, but maybe we can make Twitch become a slur?
TBH people should talk about zionism and zionists much more.
load more comments
(2 replies)
sooo twitch declares the Zionist movement offensive? and should only discussed in sn academic sense? /s
wow twitch, very brave!!
Next, "apartheid" will be anti-Semitic.
Hey everybody has a right to a racist ethnostate how dare people criticize the idea.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Good thing I'm an anti-zionist then I suppose.
view more: next ›