I don't see strong support for socialism in any of the states at the moment, so I would say that the US is simply not in a revolutionary moment at this time. If I had to guess, I would predict that US will descend into fascism first. It's also highly likely that the union will dissolve as a result of an economic crisis. We might see worker movements start being forged under those conditions.
this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2024
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Late Stage Anglo-American Empire
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But how do we get socialism from fascism?
Fascism isn't going to be any more sustainable than what's happening in the west right now. It's just the final stage of the current system, and it doesn't offer any actual solutions to the inherent contradictions of capitalism. I think the fascist stage is likely because it builds upon the capitalist narrative that has been deeply ingrained within most western minds. Lived experience is what will ultimately galvanize people against it.
Balkanization. We will likely end up with regional military power centers separated by "dead zones" where power is contested and infrastructure is destroyed. The socialist movement will emerge in the dead zones, where people and the land will be very much alive, but the fascist strongholds will not acknowledge it. Because facism is unsustainable, those strongholds will tighten their grip but be unable to expand, and eventually the gaps will choke off one stronghold at a time.
It is likely that the gap will be the home of the Rainbow Warriors
Socialism will have to be forced on them at gunpoint
Invade via mexico and kill all soldiers and cops, then install a puppet government
I can honestly agree with this idea but I feel you'll need to do a lot more than just kill cops and soldiers... The citizenry of the USA is heavily indoctrinated and worse still are extremely aggressive. If they're not openly hostile they'll be covertly hostile and it will take time and effort from both within and without to break that spirit. Remember, the Nazi's got their ideas from the USA and it's ancestors in Europe... It took 2 world wars and an unimaginable amount of dead to break the Europeans lust for war and even now it slowly is coming back, imagine what it will take to break the USA, a nation that has never had to fight for its life really ever.
Yeah, we definitely need a Stasi
Socialism will have to be forced on them at gunpoint
I mean, that's basically what a revolution is, at least the initial part. You want to get and keep the confidence of the people too (and part of that is making sure their needs are met, which is part persuasion and part plain actually caring about what happens to people). But you can't expect to have control over that pre-revolution and hope people will go along with an overthrow of an existing system. Revolution isn't a dinner party, a picnic, or a campaign promise. There's a relevant quote about how it's the forceful imposition of one group on another, or words to that effect, I forget the exact quote or I'd post it.
Could just cut off trade. USA is so reliant on imports it would just collapse.
I think the USA will Balkanize before any successful revolutions happen, so technically I'd say the socialist revolution will never happen in the USA.
I don't think the US, as a united entity, will have a revolution anytime soon. I van imagine in my lifetime the union's dissolution and the respective states/new federation that spring out of its corpse to go through a range of different political crisis. The chance of one these states undergoing a socialist revolution is plausible in my opinion but not something that can be determined without an understanding of that political crisis. It's unlikely that the entire area that was known as the USA will all become socialist until after our lifetimes.
Although I could be wrong and underestimating the accelerating pace that revolutions often take. I mean I'd say predicting the Russian empire's would have a revolution when it did was only really feasible a few years before it happened (Perhaps sooner). What I can say is that the US communist movement is at the moment still too disorganized and unsupported to take advantage of the current crises. Maybe within a decade we will have finally gotten our shit together, (and I truly hope we do and will work towards that future), but we won't know the capability of waging a revolutionary struggle until the moment is fast approaching.
The most semi realistic scenario I see is the US getting weakened after losing a decisive confrontation to Russia/China, with black nationalists and other dissenters then forming a separate socialist nation from within the USA somewhat like Malcolm X envisioned.
Personally, I think it's most likely to happen after the US loses control of a significant portion of its empire and has to resort to using its harsher policies domestically. We're exploited here, and we're aware of our evils abroad in a vague way, but I don't think that's really going to sink in for most Americans until they're having to deal with at home, live under the full extent of capitalism's evil, and realize that it can't be rehabilitated.
I think it's more likely, however, that the US could step back from fascism, even be restructured. But even then, I suspect whatever follows would just be shades of liberal and capitalist.
Not in our lifetimes. Euro-Americans are still a majority and their generational wealth will last them generations to come.
Tbh, I can see socialist revolution never coming to America, but only because it will be one of the last bastions of capitalism, meaning it could actually be peacefully reformed if enough pressure is put on it by the international communist majority. It will never become socialist through war, because nukes, or balkanization, because again nukes, so it'll basically become what we accuse Based Korea of being.
Of course, over a long enough period socialist revolution becomes inevitable, I just believe we'll all either die probably from American nukes or runaway climate change before that happens, or domino theory happens and the above scenario plays out.
The European immigrants had recently depleted their secret supply of child slaves in the Indian Residential fake schools that secretly continued after 1997. The Indigenous First Nation people also have no more inheritance that the European immigrants can rob from the Indigenous children in the fake cultural assimilation. This is the reason that the elites among the European immigrants are now abandoning their own people into poverty to import large numbers of immigrants of non-European and mixed European origins. Even the invisible hand, who had been appointing scary red Soviets into key positions of Pax Americana, had decided to flood the Western European diaspora with immigrants of non-European ancestry.
I was sort of with you until you reminded me of climate change. It was sort of plausible that the USA would hold on until the world sanctioned it in unison and crippled it. Then peaceful transition would be possible.
But climate change is going to ensure that the USA cannot hold itself together. Just physically it's going to balkanize through mass migration of climate refugees.
So you say that it doesn't matter because we all die, and socialism will never happen?
No? I'm saying socialist revolution is going to start happening everywhere in the coming future. The west is just less likely to go socialist before that
Euro-American generational wealth? Most white American have little if any generational wealth, let alone enough to last generations.
I personally think that there are 2 crises which can push parts of the us territory towards socialism in the coming 2 decades
- Fighting and losing a war with China, thereby loosing dollar hegemony.
- A collapse of the American power grid and water supply.
It could take possibly both disasters in a short span after one another to force a revolutionary condition in America. The first will be necessary to reorient America's class interests away from imperialism, then the second will be necessary to cripple the government and create the impetus for a revolutionary group to attempt putsching the present regime and surving the backlash.
If I'm being optimistic, maybe before or during the early 2030's. But that's assuming multiple leaps in regards to organizing and fighting back state repression and educating the public about what we stand to gain.
So, like in 5 years? What makes you so optimistic?
I'm an optimist but this is wildly optimistic!
Personally, I think it's most likely to happen after the US loses control of a significant portion of its empire and has to resort to using its harsher policies domestically. We're exploited here, and we're aware of our evils abroad in a vague way, but I don't think that's really going to sink in for most Americans until they're having to deal with at home, live under the full extent of capitalism's evil, and realize that it can't be rehabilitated.
I think it's more likely, however, that the US could step back from fascism, even be restructured. But even then, I suspect whatever follows would just be shades of liberal and capitalist.
Today. I'm on this motherfucker.
Tomorrow because I said so.