this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2024

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129

Pardon who? Hunter Biden case renews ethical debate over use and limits of peculiar presidential power (theconversation.com)

submitted 2 weeks ago by Joker@sh.itjust.works to c/politics@lemmy.world

80 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The decision by President Joe Biden to pardon his son, Hunter, despite previously suggesting he would not do so, has reopened debate over the use of the presidential pardon.

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[–] ceenote@lemmy.world 188 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (30 children)

Trump: Filling his cabinet with conflicted individuals and loyalists, many of whom have had legal troubles and been pardoned by him.

Biden: Pardons a family member who has never held government office for a drug-related offence.

And which story dominates the news cycle? The media is more than complicit in the resurgence of fascism in this country.

[–] thefartographer@lemm.ee 53 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Maybe I'm being inflammatory, but I think this move might have saved his son's life. I wouldn't be surprised if the next administration was planning to make an example of Hunter to show off their newly radicalized DOJ

[–] Bahnd@lemmy.world 28 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Agree, due to the politization of the case, its no longer about legality or justice. Its a safety issue now, I dont feel like this is an ethical pardon, but the country voted against ethics, so im not going to be mad at this.

If Harris had won then it would have been a very different matter, but the upcoming DOJ apointees will likely be 47s attack dogs and the biden family cant afford have any lingering cases for them to exploit.

[–] BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

Could have gotten epstiened I guess.

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

100%. Allowing Hunter Biden to be in the custody of Trump's doj would be a national security risk.

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

The media is more than complicit in the resurgence of fascism in this country.

YUP.

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[–] DoomHorizons@lemm.ee 80 points 2 weeks ago (15 children)

The time to worry about the limits of presidential power was during the supreme court decision on immunity

Now that cats out of the bag, there's no sense in Biden trying to adhere to standards that no longer exist

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago

True. Ain't nobody "reopening" debate except corporate news holes.

[–] Xanis@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Yup. Let him go crazy with those powers. As sour as it tastes, he was given authority to do so by the Federal Supreme Court. If MAGA doesn't like it they can kiss our collective asses and roll that shit back.

They won't, of course, for a couple reasons:

It IS another form of power
They know the left will have plenty of people complaining whenever someone on their side decides to use it, while everyone on the Far Right will rejoice.

I suggest those of you whining about this take a step back and look at the bigger issues. One of which happens to be rather rotund, orange, and requires us to stop bickering.

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[–] eran_morad@lemmy.world 44 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Fucking good. The pardon power is bullshit and we ought to pull it the fuck out of the constitution. I'm glad Brandon pardoned his son, though, I hope republicans go apoplectic. Those cunts ushered in this era of lawlessness, why the fuck should we play ball? Sort out your twice-impeached rapist felon traitor president, cunts. Don't step to me with this Hunter Biden bullshit. Fuck off and die.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 30 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Honestly, Biden should just go completely off the rails, and do all the shit Trump is threatening to do, including jailing political rivals. Including the red members of the SCOTUS. Give them plenty of warning, and plenty of time to reverse their prior ruling, but start following through if they decline to. Make them respond.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 26 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Too bad the Democrats official motto is "when they go low, we sit here and do absofucukinglutly nothing but cry about it and let them tread all over us."

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I find their continued requests for donations while they do absolutely nothing to be particularly infuriating.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Donate to us, we gave Oprah too much!

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[–] Xanis@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago

I said months ago that Biden and the larger Democratic party needed to come out swinging. I doubled down after Biden's lackluster debate. When Harris hit the ground sprinting I was actually happy. Then some traditional democratic strategic asshat convinced her to simmer down and take a risky route that would only have worked 25 years ago.

Step up, Dems. We've gone from cushy NFL offsides to NFL Blitz and you're waaay behind.

[–] hark@lemmy.world 31 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

This is what does it? I'm not a fan of the nepotism, but there were plenty of worse cases that should've renewed the debate. Doesn't give me much hope for whatever comes out of this "debate".

[–] Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago

You'd think Trump and Giuliani selling pardons for $2 million a piece would be a much bigger example.

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

No this is faux outrage.

These people get angry at literally anything they are told to get angry at.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 27 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

As soon as a democrat does it, everyone suddenly cares? We should do this more often, clearly the magats need to see an example before they'll agree to fix the loopholes.

[–] Vipsu@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

It's easy to expect perfection from your opponents while crying about whataboutism when someone points out their side has done the same.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 25 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Oh my god, Biden did something vaguely questionable, clutch my fucking pearls.

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 5 points 2 weeks ago

vague questionable on a case that was questionable. I still think of how clintons impeachment was due to a lie about a relationship with lewinski in the watergate investigation which they were cleared for but they still impeached due to the lie about the questionable personal relationship and then not having even that for biden they went after his son who at most used his name to make money. But trump was impeached because of withholding money to a foreign leader until they managed to pressure their press to give him a line of attack on his opponent. And the dems never impeached bush or reagan. sad.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 20 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I know this is a questionable move, but with a gang of fascist crooks about to take over the USA it's a bit depressing to read headlines that are still stuck at "renews ethical debate". Fascists don't debate ethics or anything else, and particularly fascist autocrats and their enablers don't debate the ethical limits of presidential power. They have other ways of resolving matters, and people need to focus on preparing effective ways to defend themselves.

[–] Roopappy@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

We want to elect a president who is a convicted fraudster, found to have committed a sexual assault, who incited people to overthrow the government and murder is VP then watched excitedly while it went down, and who has promised to suspend our rights to punish anyone who questions him...

And then, we want to talk about presidential ethics?

Yeah, no. That ship has sailed. Ethics will get much much worse, because that's what voters clearly selected. Lets not pretend anyone gives a shit.

[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 weeks ago

There is no "ethical debate" anymore. You're system is broken to the core and I don't blame Biden at all for saying "fuck it".

Hell, if I were him I'd use my so-called "Presidential Immunity" to do whatever he can to fuck up the MAGA agenda before he leaves.

"I'm putting 6 new judges on the supreme court, all democract. Why? Because fuck you, that's why."

"I'm giving two of our nukes because fuck Putin"

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yes, Biden made a bad decision

However

Trump pardoned all his friends and heavy criminals before, nobody gave a damn. He said he'd pardon all those in the January 6 coup , and he would pardon himself.

Biden did the right thing, not only for his family, because of course, but also to start this debate. Hopefully we can stop presidential pardons before trump gets in. Not that it will matter, trump will just do whatever the fuck he wants

[–] MrMcGasion@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm not sure getting rid of presidential pardons is right either. There are cases of provably innocent people on death row who have been saved from execution by presidential pardon because the justice system otherwise failed them. It's not a perfect system, and it has failed more than it has saved, but until we reform the justice system (and probably ban the death penalty) stopping presidential pardons is a terrible idea.

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[–] _lilith@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Ethical standards. Don't make me fucking laugh.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 weeks ago

Lmao the false equivalence is absolutely deafening

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

LOL, "debate".

The qons do whatever the hell they want, and dare anyone to push back. If anyone even clears their throat, the right cries about being "cancelled" or whatever.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 5 points 2 weeks ago

I'm hoping that this is just a start and won't be a single action. I can unfortunately see the side of everyone's opinion on this, good and bad, which is why it needs to be today's headline only because Trump hasn't put some other loyalist in a position today yet.

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