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submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by nichtsowichtig@feddit.de to c/anarchism@lemmy.ml

apparently r/anarchism has been in lockdown for quite some time now and they link to their own reddit alternative called raddle.me, which is not fediverse integrated, sadly. they also have a long list of alternatives, but lemmy isn't one of them

That seems to be the case because lemmy's main dev is a ml. (edit: meaning 'marxist leninist, apologies for not being clear on that)

It's somewhat sad for me because the whole philosophy of the fediverse is anarchistic in its core, it is how it should be, it is how the internet should work. So I wondered - what are the biggest anarchistic communities in the fediverse so far?

edit: here some context I found on raddle: 1 2 3

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[-] Azzu@lemm.ee 66 points 11 months ago

It's ridiculous how many people completely dismiss something/someone just because of one thing. True, the main Lemmy devs seem to have some very questionable views on some topics. But they also quite obviously care a lot about privacy, free and open platforms, decentralization of power, I've not found any evidence of them censoring or even shittalking any opposing views, and their goal is to have a world where everyone is well taken care of and there's no corporate greed ruining communities.

It's just irrational blind hate because of political disagreement. Politics is the mind-killer.

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.de 14 points 11 months ago

I think it is worth pointing out that this entire rivaly (if you can call it that) between lemmy and raddle is wayyy older than the reddit migration. Back them these spaces consisted mostly of leftists and their differences seem much more insignificant now that so many "normies" join the plattform. And I guess this whole federation thing seemed a lot less compelling when there were only of handful active communities about a pretty limited set of topics

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[-] mojo@lemm.ee 38 points 11 months ago

They're redditors who choose to stay on the platform. Their opinion is invalid.

[-] MinusPi@pawb.social 32 points 11 months ago

Anarchism until it's inconvenient

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.de 17 points 11 months ago

to be fair we all are like that to some extend. switching to lemmy is more convenient to us than to many others as we are more tech-savy. Similarly, anarchists who have a garden and the necessary know-how to cultivate their own plants might judge others for buying veggies from the supermarket. They'd have a point but it wouldn't be entirely fair

[-] nix@merv.news 34 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It’s weird they have more hate for the ml devs of lemmy then the capitalist mega corp devs of Reddit. Also they could fork the software and make their own instance and reach way more people while having a much more anarchist software than the top down control raddle has

In terms of anarchist communities on the fediverse all i know of is this anarchism /c/ https://kolektiva.social and the https://merveilles.town mastodon instance

[-] socsa@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago

You can argue that classical liberalism is marginally more aligned with anarchist traditions than the idiotic form of autocratic ML vanguardism you see around here.

[-] StrayCatFrump@slrpnk.net 23 points 11 months ago

Given the horrendous history of /r/Anarchism's moderation and the fact that Raddle is a direct continuation of that garbage, I'd say it's both no surprise and no loss. Let them go honeypot and jackboot themselves into oblivion. The unfortunate thing, of course, is that they've controlled a forum with a very obvious name for half a decade, and can shepherd a lot of unknowing users into their cesspit with them. But there's probably not a lot that can be done about that.

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.de 8 points 11 months ago

can you give me some context of that history? I'd like to read more about it

[-] StrayCatFrump@slrpnk.net 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

In IDK like the 2015-2017 timeframe some really edgy people started taking over in /r/metanarchism (the private sub where moderation decisions are made for /r/Anarchism). They formed a clique—a cult, really—and managed to force out anyone else who weren't part of it, totally ignoring even the rules they'd setup themselves for how people were to be banned. Their notion was basically that you had to subscribe to and promote the most violent possible solutions to every situation, and if you didn't jump on board enthusiastically, you weren't a "real anarchist". It was basically the most dark aesthetics of anarchism without any of the actual philosophy.

There were whole drama wars about it, where the people they banned congregated in /r/LeftWithoutEdge, /r/AnarchismOnline, and other subs, and in response the edge cult setup /r/LeftWithSharpEdge, trolled those subs their victims fled to, and harassed people with things like bloody cannibalism fantasies about their victims. Those are the folks still moderating in /r/Anarchism, and they have at least a couple moderators in subs like /r/LateStageCapitalism as well.

One of the most prolific and obsessed trolls is the guy who setup Raddit. He was caught having whole conversation trees with himself in order to fake participation on the site and set its tone. A number of times he declared he was "stepping back" from moderating it and would just run the server...and then didn't.

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.de 4 points 11 months ago
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[-] totallynotarobot@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago

What's “a ml" in this context?

Is the dev really teeny and takes up only a cubic centimetre when liquified?

[-] ikiru@lemmy.ml 39 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Marxist-Leninist.

Kinda funny they reject Lemmy for that but didn't reject reddit for being a capitalist but okay. There are instances ran by anarchists too.

I just got your joke. wooosh

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.de 9 points 11 months ago

There are instances ran by anarchists too.

cool! which ones?

[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 19 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Slrpnk.net feel free to join us, but we are a strictly tankie free zone (lemmygrad and Hexbear are Blocked).

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/ is another one.

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.de 7 points 11 months ago

awesome! thanks a lot. I think slrpnk hits the right notes for me :]

[-] ikiru@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago

Yeah, I'll check out slrpnk too but I was thinking of dbzer0. I have a backup account there if something happens to this one, which is my original.

[-] AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 7 points 11 months ago

I love being on Slrpnk.net. When I was searching for an instance to join, I wanted one that wasn't too big and wasn't too small, and this has ended up being perfect

[-] totallynotarobot@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I was genuinely asking too tho, thank you for the explanation!

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[-] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 11 months ago

Seems like a classic case of not understanding how the technology works and just assuming that because the developers are disagreeable that means the product is somehow tainted with their ideology.

I agree, decentralized things are inherently anarchic and to throw that to the wayside just because the dev is a tankie is counterproductive.

[-] MxM111@kbin.social 16 points 11 months ago

What do they think about kbin ? It is part of fediverse, but not developed by ML.

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[-] neonfire@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

wouldn't the best take to be to just use the tankie's labor for the betterment of all mankind? Fuck who makes the shit if it's FOSS.

Personally I think the decentralized solution is some sort of fake-central website that many people can host part of, no one having full control of any one community. kind of like bittorrent in that you have the one torrent file, but the source of the content is pulled from many locations. You could definitely have redunancy in case one server goes down at any time, but not as much as BT where every seeder needs the whole source. spread it all out. take 100 servers connected to the project, split the content into sections, and then layer the redundancy all over so no two servers have the same cache but also that nothing is only on a single server.

I wish I was smart enough to code or even explain this idea better. :( at the very least I hope I inspire someone.

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.de 7 points 11 months ago

sounds interesting, but I can't quite follow haha I think the way the fediverse works now is a good balance between individual freedom and feasibility in terms of moderation/hosting

[-] elbarto777@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Hm. I don't know. If a serial kitten torturer amd killer made Foss software, I'd stay the fuck away.

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.de 9 points 11 months ago

I don't quite agree. Likewise there would be no point in torning down the infrastructure developed by fascists/colonizers - it would make a lot more sense to repurpose it for the general good.

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[-] CAPSLOCKFTW@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago

The developer of Reiser.fs, Hans Reiser killed his wife and currently is imprisoned as a convicted murderer

The maintainer and developer of core-js served a 19-month prison sentence for killing two people in a traffic accident.

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[-] atoll@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago
[-] sotolf@programming.dev 20 points 11 months ago

Marxist Leninist, but I think the correct term would be tankie.

[-] dbilitated@aussie.zone 5 points 11 months ago

ohhhhhhhhhhhh i wondered why there were a lot of .ml domains for lemmy

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.de 9 points 11 months ago

afaik Mali domains have been free to get for some time, but the letters make it very convenient for a marxist-leninist server

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.de 4 points 11 months ago

makes sense. I'm obviously not a fan of tankies, but is there a more neutral term for them? I used "ml", but I assume not all marxist-leninists are also tankies

[-] cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago

Calling someone a “tankie” is kind of similar to calling someone “woke”. It serves as an easy way to dismiss someone whose opinion you don’t like without actually engaging with their ideas. As such, I feel like the definition has been watered down with time.

I got the sense a few years ago that the colloquial definition used online referred to people who unironically thought Stalin did nothing wrong. Most self described marxist-leninists don’t even fit into that category. As the scope grew people start using it to refer to basically any ML. Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it’s been used to refer to anyone, Marxist or otherwise, who opposes US involvement in the war.

[-] sotolf@programming.dev 6 points 11 months ago

Why? tankies are Authocratic far left people, supporting dictators with bloody hands, I don't think we need a neutral term, call them as it is, and I say this as a far left person, just not supporting authocrat dictators.

[-] elbarto777@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago
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[-] Drewfro66@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 11 months ago

Marxist-Leninist is the neutral term, though the current zeitgeist in "Tankie" spaces is "Just call yourself a Communist". "Tankie" is a pejorative. It doesn't mean anything more than "Socialist I don't like". I've heard some people call Anarchists Tankies if they have the bare minimum of ideologically consistent views like opposing Capitalist institutions such as the EU and NATO. Depending on what you mean by "Tankie", yes, all MLs are Tankies.

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this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
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