Technology

"To enable the massive 256GB/s memory bandwidth that Ryzen AI Max delivers, the LPDDR5x is soldered," writes Framework CEO Nirav Patel in a post about today's announcements. "We spent months working with AMD to explore ways around this but ultimately determined that it wasn’t technically feasible to land modular memory at high throughput with the 256-bit memory bus. Because the memory is non-upgradeable, we’re being deliberate in making memory pricing more reasonable than you might find with other brands."

😒🍎

Edit: to be clear, I was only trying to point out that "we’re being deliberate in making memory pricing more reasonable than you might find with other brands" is clearly targeting the Mac Mini, because Apple likes to price-gouge on RAM upgrades. ("Unamused face looking at Apple," get it? Maybe I emoji'd wrong.) My comment is not meant to be an opinion about the soldered RAM.

Framework releasing a Mac Mini was certainly not on my bingo card for this year.

Lmao the news about this desktop is strangling their website to the point of needing a 45 minute waiting list

Not really sure who this is for. With soldered RAM is less upgradeable than a regular PC.

AI nerds maybe? Sure got a lot of RAM in there potentially attached to a GPU.

But how capable is that really when compared to a 5090 or similar?

Holy moly this is awesome! I am in for the 128GB SKU.

That's 96GB of usable VRAM! And way more CPU bandwidth than any desktop Zen chip.

I know people are going to complain about non upgradable memory, but you can just replace the board, and in this case it’s so worth it for the speed/power efficiency. This isn’t artificial crippling, it physically has to be soldered, at least until LPCAMM catches on.

My only ask would be a full X16 (or at least a physical X16/electrical x8) PCIe slot or breakout ribbon. X4 would be a bit of a bottleneck for some GPUs/workloads… Does Strix Halo even support that?

Soldered on ram and GPU. Strange for Framework.

Calling it a gaming PC feels misleading. It's definitely geared more towards enterprise/AI workloads. If you want upgradeable just buy a regular framework. This desktop is interesting but niche and doesn't seem like it's for gamers.

I feel like this is a big miss by framework. Maybe I just don't understand because I already own a Velka 3 that i used happily for years and building small form factor with standard parts seems better than what this is offering. Better as in better performance, aesthetics, space optimization, upgradeability - SFF is not a cheap or easy way to build a computer.

The biggest constraint building in the sub-5 liter format is GPU compatibility because not many manufacturers even make boards in the <180mm length category. Also can't go much higher than 150-200 watts because cooling is so difficult. There are still options though, i rocked a PNY 1660 super for a long time, and the current most powerful option is a 4060ti. Although upgrades are limited to what manufacturers occasionally produce, it is upgradeable, and it is truly desktop performance.

On the CPU side, you can physically put in whatever CPU you want. The only limitation is that the cooler, alpenfohn black ridge or noctua l9a/l9i, probably won't have a good time cooling 100+ watts without aggressive undervolting and power limits. 65 watts TDP still gives you a ryzen 7 9700x.

Motherboards have the SFF tax but are high quality in general. Flex ATX PSUs were a bit harder to find 5 or 6 years ago but now the black 600W enhance ENP is readily available from Velkase's website. Drives and memory are completely standard. m.2 fits with the motherboard, 2.5in SATA also fits in one of the corners. Normal low profile DDR5 is replaceable / upgradeable.

What framework is releasing is more like a laptop board in a ~4 liter case and I really don't like that in order to upgrade any part of CPU, GPU or memory you have to replace the entire board because it's soldered on APU and not socketed or discrete components. Framework's enclosure hasn't been designed to hold a motherboard+discrete GPU and the board doesn't have a PCIe slot if you wanted to attach a card via riser in another case. It could be worse but I don't see this as a good use of development resources.

Question about how shared VRAM works

So I need to specify in the BIOS the split, and then it's dedicated at runtime, or can I allocate VRAM dynamically as needed by workload?

On macos you don't really have to think about this, so wondering how this compares.

I don't get the point. Framework laptops are interesting because they are modular but for desktop PCs that's the default. And Framework's PCs are less modular than a standard PC because the RAM is soldered

This is one stupid product. It really goes against everything the framework brand has identified with.

Now, can we have a cool European company doing similar stuff? At the rate it's going I can't decide whether I shouldn't buy American because I don't want to support a fascist country or because I'm afraid the country might crumble so badly that I can't count on getting service for my device.

This is not really that interesting and kinda weird given the non-upgradability, but I guess it's good for AI workloads. It's just not that unique compared to their laptops.

I'd love a mid-tower case with swappable front panel I/O and modular bays for optical drives; would've been the perfect product for Framework to make IMO.

At first I was skeptical during the announcement and then I saw the amount of ram and the rack. Imho it is not for enduser but for business. In fact we have workloads that would be perfectly fit that computer so why not?

The Framework Desktop is powered by an AMD Ryzen AI Max processor, a Radeon 8060S integrated GPU, and between 32GB and 128GB of soldered-in RAM.

The CPU and GPU are one piece of silicon, and they're soldered to the motherboard. The RAM is also soldered down and not upgradeable once you've bought it, setting it apart from nearly every other board Framework sells.

It'd raise an eyebrow if it was a laptop but it's a freakin' desktop. Fuck you framework.

Much like their laptops, I'm all for the idea, but what makes this desirable by those of us with no interest in AI?

I'm out of that loop though I get that AI is typically graphics processing heavy, can this be taken advantage of with other things like video rendering?

I just don't know exactly what an AI CPU such as the Ryzen AI Max offers over a non-AI equivalent processor.