this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2023
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No Stupid Questions

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Hi, English isn't my mother tongue so I was asking myself that question since I first encounted a w/... Back then I was like: "What tf does 'w slash' stand for?" And when I found out I was like "How, why, and is it any intuitive?" But I never dared to ask that until now

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[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 120 points 1 year ago (34 children)

All in all, the / is just one style of abbreviation used in English. It's not only used for "with", but also a few other words (w/o = without, N/A = not applicable).

In German we abbreviate using a dot (e.g. "m." = "mit" = "with). That's not more or less intuitive, it's just what you are used to.

What's kinda special with English is that there are multiple abbreviation styles. Off the top of my head I can think of six styles:

  • Abbreviate random parts of words using a slash: "N/A", "w/", "w/o"
  • Abbreviate keeping only the first letter of a word using a dot: "e.g."
  • Abbreviate keeping the first and some random later consonants (and sometimes consonants that aren't in the word at all) without using punctuation: Dr, Mr, Ms, Mrs
  • Abbreviate using acronyms and no punctuation: BBC
  • Abbreviate using acronyms and dots: B.C.
  • Abbreviate by substituting parts of the word with a single letter: Xmas (Christmas), Xing (Crossing)
[–] candybrie@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

I'm used to Dr., Mr., Mrs. all needing the dot.

I'd also add the medical ones which all use x, and most use the first letter of the word, but not all, so it's kinda point 3, kinda not:

  • Prescription: rx
  • Symptoms: sx
  • Diagnosis: dx
  • History: hx
[–] Izzgo@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I learned similar shorthand from an accountant, who wrote transfer (money transfer between accounts) as tx.

Also, it used to be obligatory to put the dot on Mr., Mrs., Dr., etc. I'm old, I remember how it was taught. And we called those dots "periods". I haven't been in school in decades, but I've been noticing those dots disappearing.

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[–] sarchar@programming.dev 31 points 1 year ago (8 children)

In programmer lingo we'll sometimes shorten words with the number of letters in between:

i18n (internationalization) and L10n (localization). I just learned of g11n (globalization), too.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wait until you learn about k8s

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[–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This one is terrible IMO. A11y is ironically very inaccessible unless you’re aware of this unintuitive system.

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[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 11 points 1 year ago

Also k8s for Kubernetes.

[–] ipha@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago

Wait. That is why it's called i18n!? Never knew that.

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

True, forgot about that one. I really hat this style of abbreviation^^

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

T2e, f4t a3t t2t o1e. I r4y h2e t2s s3e o0f a10n^^

F3d i0t f1r y1u.

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[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (17 children)

Dr., Mrs., Ms. etc. are traditionally abbreviated with periods/dots but it does raise issues typing on one's phone because autocorrect thinks it's the end of a sentence, so sans dots is becoming more common. And there's other examples which have never had dots, like nvm and af

X is a little special, it stands for Cross and therefore also for Christ. When illiterate medieval people had to sign documents they were told to make the sign of the Cross, since they were usually swearing

Edit: anyone else always pronounce PED XING as pedexing instead of pedestrian crossing?

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[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago

don't forget using contractions on single words, like cont'd, pop'n (sometimes written pop^n^)

[–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Don’t forget re: which means regarding or in reference to, not reply.

[–] Taniwha420@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

... I think it's actually a Latin word, "re,", meaning, "the matter (subject)" not an abbreviation at all.

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[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

don't forget x in medical settings. eg, dx is diagnose, tx is treatment, etc

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[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 63 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As others said, with as w/ was around as part of secretarial shorthand, which got taught to most people keeping corporate documentation and it stuck.

There are a lot of abbreviations like that in the English language that came from abbreviations in written form due to the media in was written in, whether it was newspapers, telegraph, handwritten shorthand, or computer based. It may not make sense because English isn't a language designed to make sense; it isn't even designed.

[–] yata@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It may not make sense because English isn’t a language designed to make sense; it isn’t even designed.

To be fair, no living language is.

[–] OrteilGenou@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

French is heavily managed by the Académie, I guess it depends how you interpret "designed". English is a much freer language that morphs and absorbs terms from many languages.

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[–] mysoulishome@lemmy.world 61 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Pretty sure it started w/your mom

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[–] milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee 54 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Some various answers here; but for me, it came from w/o as a shorthand for 'without', then I started sometimes writing w/ for 'with' and wondering if that's okay!

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm not a linguist, but to me, langauge is fluid, in that it's fine to use it any way you want, so long as the people involved can interpret it as intended.

Which means when you write a note in shorthand for yourself, so long as you can come back to it and decipher it at whatever point you need it then it's fine.

If someone were to happen to come across it then there is a concern that they may interpret it wrong. As a silly example: If "I will fuck your mom" was your code for "I will pick up milk and eggs from the grocery store", you can see how people (which could include you later) can interpret your message incorrectly, and you should pick a better shorthand in that case.

When communicating with others you'll have contexts of what kind of things are relevant, like PoS may mean different things if you are talking to a store manager vs. your buddy, you have to be sure your listener or reader gets the correct version.

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[–] 31415926535@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago

My mother was a legal secretary, so she taught me shorthand when I was a kid. W/o was included in those teachings.

[–] Siegfried@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In spanish we use the same abbreviation: c/ for "with" ans s/ for "without"

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[–] ReluctantMuskrat@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My guess is these became common with the telegraph. Since messages were expensive and the sender paid by the letter, abbreviations where commonly used to keep messages short.

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[–] ekky43@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

w/ appears to have origin in the food industry some 70 years ago (according to this question).

To me it makes sense, as I first encountered it in video games where abbreviations, acronyms, and text-saving-slang are commonplace. Furthermore, while abbreviations usually have multiple letters (in written text, not physical or mathematical equations), single letter abbreviations can quickly become confusing, so I belive that this is the reason for putting a slash behind it, or possibly a bar above it.

RANT: While I know that language changes all the time, I find it very unfortunate that this little fellow o/ and possibly his slightly more formal friend o7 have become synonymous with "nazi salute". First off, it's the wrong arm! And second off, what do you have against "man waving" and "man saluting"?

It must be very confusing for someone who uses this newer definition of o/ to visit the Elite:Dangerous forums.

EDIT: I'm very happy that I apparently am the only one who has met people who don't know the real meaning of o/ and o7. I feared that this was a widespread problem, but luckily it appears that I simply am a worrywart.

[–] V17@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago

RANT: While I know that language changes all the time, I find it very unfortunate that this little fellow o/ and possibly his slightly more formal friend o7 have become synonymous with “nazi salute”. First off, it’s the wrong arm! And second off, what do you have against “man waving” and “man saluting”?

Have they really? Never seen o7 used that way, with o/ it's more understandable, but since one can easily just use \o (or use an actual unicode swastika) I just don't see it getting that controversial. Seems even less known than the triple parentheses thing, which is something that most people who don't spend their lives on the internet never heard about.

[–] Magickmaster@feddit.de 17 points 1 year ago

First time hearing o7 as 'nazi salute', I only know it as a 'military/captain's salute' out of Eve Online, Elite and some milsim games

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago

It must be very confusing for someone who uses this newer definition of o/ to visit the Elite:Dangerous forums.

EVE online players have done the o7 salute for decades. And while I'll gladly admit that every single longtime EVE player is at least something of an asshole (it's a requirement to really enjoy the game) I doubt the majority are cryptofascists.

[–] taaz@biglemmowski.win 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Poor o/ and o7

I am never stopping using these.

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[–] HerbalGamer@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

RANT: While I know that language changes all the time, I find it very unfortunate that this little fellow o/ and possibly his slightly more formal friend o7 have become synonymous with “nazi heil”. First off, it’s the wrong arm! And second off, what do you have against “man waving” and “man saluting”.

Never heard that but thanks for reporting o7

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[–] algorithmae@lemmy.one 9 points 1 year ago

o/ is a wave, o7 is a salute of respect

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[–] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

It comes from the letter "w" as in, "with"

[–] teuto@lemmy.teuto.icu 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Just wait until you encounter morse code abbreviations, some of which are still used in some industries. Like the wonderful X abbreviations, such as:

Wx - weather

Mx - maintainence

Tx/Rx - transmit/receive

Edit: I'm starting to think every industry totally did their own thing with morse abbreviations

[–] Hegar@kbin.social 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hx, Rx, Tx are history, prescription and treatment in medical jargon

[–] GentlemanLoser@ttrpg.network 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)
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[–] ladytaters@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Cx - customer is one I run into daily.

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[–] ook_the_librarian@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I know this isn't an answer on the topic of the history of abbreviations, but I found this page to have a useful list of abbreviations with the foreign speaker in mind.

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[–] rhythmisaprancer@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I use c̅ for with and s̅ for without, these may make more sense for you depending on your native tongue. They are medical shorthand.

[–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No idea, but it might be connected with shorthand, which was a common and sophisticated note-taking technique that allowed people, mostly secretaries in business, to write as fast as talking.

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[–] solivine@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (6 children)

If that annoys you, never get into advanced maths. There's arbitrary symbols that make no sense like 3 dots in a triangle means therefore. An upside down capital A means for all.

[–] theskyisfalling@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I still use the three dots for therefore sometimes without really thinking about it. I never pursued work in maths or physics (I set and run industrial machines) but for some reason that one always stuck with me from school.

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