this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2025
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[–] F_OFF_Reddit@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)
[–] groolthedemon@lemmy.world 1 points 37 minutes ago

OBEY CONFORM SUBMIT

[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 24 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

We operate under the depression-era assumption that per-capita GDP is some kinda gold-standard metric for evaluating how well a country is doing economically. In reality per-capita GDP is just tracking the trash changing hands. We also overemphasize transactionality because of this. It's somehow much better from an "economic perspective" to have everyone buying new shirts every week even if it's the same people buying and then tossing the same fast fashion junk in the trash.

When you consider other metrics we could be judged by such as the OP is kinda pointing at here, our country looks way fucking worse on the leaderboard.

We ought to use the measures of the material conditions of our population to drive policy rather than how much currency has changed hands and how many worthless transactions have occurred.

[–] LanguageIsCool@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

Not enough memes. Besides that, definitely agree.

This concept has a name. Artificial Scarcity.

[–] HiroProtagonist@lemmy.ca 7 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I keep wondering if we have reached or are on the cusp of a post-scarcity society.

[–] Worx@lemmynsfw.com 7 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Scarcity isn't just about how much stuff there is, it's also about how much access people have to stuff. So no, we sadly haven't got there yet in my opinion

[–] HiroProtagonist@lemmy.ca 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

No I agree with the logistics of it. I meant to say the manufacturing and agricultural capacity we already have seems like more than enough.

[–] Worx@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 3 hours ago

Oh yeah, almost certainly. Apparently 1/3rd of food produced globally is wasted.

TitleI volunteer with a food suplus redistribution organisation and that's the figure we use so although I don't have a specific source, I'm inclined to believe it

[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 5 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

It is true that there will never be enough to satisfy the greediest among us. Unless there’s some kind of global revolution this will continue until the end

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 72 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

Related: the idea that everyone needs to work all the time isn't really true anymore. If we were in like 3000 bce in a small farming village outside Ur, yeah, people gotta pitch in so we don't get eaten by wildlife, the neighboring tribe, or whatever.

But in 2025ce, where so many jobs have so much filler nonsense? And when the rich can just live on investment income? No, the whole "work or starve" thing isn't needed anymore.

We should have basic income for all and public housing. Let people pursue what they want. Maybe it's art. Maybe they just want to take care of the local library. Maybe they just want to be a local barfly that keeps the tavern interesting. Who knows? But wage slavery needs to go.

[–] SuperNovaStar@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 13 hours ago (3 children)

when the rich can just live on investment income

How do you think they make that money? Primarily off of consumerism. If we all collectively decided to share what we have and stop buying what we don't need, there could be no passive income, not at the scale it exists today, anyways.

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 6 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (3 children)

We also need to outlaw landlords. Owning land is not a job and it's certainly not a business.

[–] trashpanda@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 8 hours ago

Only raccoons could be owners of land :D

[–] Fluke@lemm.ee 3 points 8 hours ago

Hard Agree.

[–] silasmariner@programming.dev -1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I think landlords make a lot of sense for commercially-zoned property, and for residentially there needs to be some way to live somewhere even if you can't afford the mortgage deposit. So there's nuance here that needs addressing IMO.

[–] SuperNovaStar@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 43 minutes ago

We could just... give everyone a place to live. Then there's no such thing as "can't afford a mortgage."

[–] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 6 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

Consumerism is used for wealth redistribution.

Real wealth production occurs when machines create work, saving time. Work = money.

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[–] LanguageIsCool@lemmy.world 13 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

Recommendation: the book Bullshit Jobs

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 6 points 10 hours ago

Also Graeber’s Debt.

So many of Graeber’s ideas are right on the dot. Those two books helped me understand economics better than fucking Milton Friedman ever could.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 7 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

I've heard of this one. Maybe I'll check it out.

The downside of reading a lot of depressing non fiction is I increasingly feel like I'm living in a cuckoo clock, and get frustrated with how everyone else seems oblivious and uncaring.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

I want the inside of my house to look like the outside of an insane asylum

[–] punksnotdead@slrpnk.net 1 points 7 hours ago

If you want an understanding of the cuckoo clock and how it came to be, I highly recommend you watch the BBC documentary HyperNormalisation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation

It argues that following the global economic crises of the 1970s, governments, financiers and technological utopians gave up on trying to shape the complex "real world" and instead established a simpler "fake world" for the benefit of multi-national corporations that is kept stable by neoliberal governments.

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[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 6 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

We all lie to ourselves in various ways - like thinking we need a supercomputer in our pocket so we can see what's trending while we sit on the toilet.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 12 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

"The problem with the American economy is too many pocket computers", I say while sitting on the toilet in the Bigger Bombs factory at Raytheon.

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[–] JennyLaFae@lemmy.blahaj.zone 40 points 15 hours ago (4 children)

We don't have a resource problem, we have a distribution problem.

Resources are constantly being wasted to accelerate the wealth transfer up the chain.

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[–] sxan@midwest.social 16 points 13 hours ago (4 children)

First, I agree with the general sentiment. However, there are some devilish details.

Take a look at some pictures of Gary, Indiana. It's an entire city that's been mostly abandoned since the collapse of the industry that built it. There are entire boarded up neighborhoods, and some quite fine large, brick houses where wealthy people used to live. It's all just sitting there. I'm sure that Gary would love to have people start moving back in, and revive the city.

So, say Gary just eminent-domained all those properties, and said to America: you want a house? All you have to do is come, pick one, and move in. You live in it for 5 years, it's your's.

The problem is that it costs money to keep up a home. Home maintenance is stupid expensive, and most of these abandoned homes need repairs: new windows, new roofs, new water heaters, plumbing repairs, electrical repairs. Do you have any idea what a new window costs? And even if it's sweat equity, and you're able to repair a roof yourself, you still need materials. Where does this money come from?

Are the homeless in California going to move to Gary, IN? Are the homeless in Alabama? There are homeless employed folks, but they're tied to their locations by their jobs. They're not moving to Gary.

Finally, it's a truism that it's often less expensive to tear down a house in poor condition and build a new one than it is to renovate. If these people don't have the money to build a new house, how are they going to afford to renovate a vacant one.

The problem is that people need jobs to live in a house (unless someone else is paying for taxes, insurance, and maintenance). And the places with jobs aren't the places like Gary, that have a abundance of empty homes. All of those empty homes are in inconvenient places, where the industry and jobs they created dried up.

It may be that a well-funded organization could artificially construct a self-sustaining community built on the bones of a dead one. But I think it's oversimplifying to suggest that you can just take an empty home away from the owner (let's assume you can) and just stick homeless people in it and assume it'll work - that, even given a house, they'll be able to afford to keep it heated, maintained, powered, insured. Shit, even if you given them a complete tax exemption, just keeping a house is expensive.

I'm sure there are some minority of homeless for whom giving an abandoned home in the area they live would solve their problems. And I'm sure that, for a while at least, having a bigger box to live in would be an improvement for many, even if the box is slowly falling apart around them. But I think it's naive to be angry about the number of empty homes, and that homelessness could be solved by relocating the homeless to where these places are and assigning them a house - whatever state it's in.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 5 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

The problem is that people need jobs to live

QFT

[–] sxan@midwest.social 4 points 7 hours ago

Don't get me started on that one.

[–] Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 hours ago

We don't need to move them, there are vacant homes everywhere. Even in San francisco the residential vacancy rate is 6%. The unhoused in San francisco make up about 1% of the population, so assuming the unhoused population takes up the same amount of housing per person as the housed population, we could house every unhoused person here and still have 5% left over.

That's the worst case too, the rest of the country has a higher vacancy rate and a proportionally lower unhoused population.

[–] melpomenesclevage@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

so, the biggest reasons why the california unhoused population is so big are because social workers from the rest of the country send their high needs people our way. it's called 'greyhound therapy'-california is warm enough you won't freeze in winter, nobody thinks about heat stroke, and a bus ticket is better than a month of shelter beds. we also get all the children they throw away for being queer, at least the ones who don't just join the military, which isn't going to be a thing anymore, for pretty similar reasons.

so the opposite of that actually happens. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would like to go home.

except... even in los angeles, there are so many empty units. I don't just mean for turnover-the half dozen or so big landlording companies make more money keeping a unit empty and recursively leveraging it like tesla stock than renting it out to a tenant with good income and dubious credit. so we are being stared at by a thousand blind windows at all times. many of them in large buildings that are partially occupied, and even the single family residences are well maintained, because they exist as financial instruments. I doubt it's enough, but not everybody actually wants to live in los angeles-the food is great, the culture is good, I adore the mild winters, and so much else, but the hills, the traffic, the ground constantly shaking, the noise, the fact one of our seasons is just 'fire' and the smoke sometimes drops the temperature by a degree or two so it's not even a net negative every time, the amount of funding we give to the gangs, and the fact it's just so fucking big and so fucking city just isn't for everyone. I'm sure there are people who miss snow.

the concept is more sound than you would think, and it's not like there's any down side.

[–] sxan@midwest.social 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

called 'greyhound therapy'-california is warm enough you won't freeze in winter,

I live in Minneapolis, where we regularly have winter days that reach -30°F. Not frequently that bad, but rarely a winter without one of those, and in the past 7 years I've lived here, we've had a couple of days where it's hit -50°. You don't survive that very long, even with a lot of good clothes; any exposed skin gets frostbite within minutes. It's not been as bad the past couple of years, what with global warming, but the winters here can well be described as "brutal." I can't imagine being homeless here, and if I was, and someone offered me a free trip to California, I'd take it. I grew up in Santa Cruz, and while LA is rather hotter than I prefer, I'd still rather face that than a Minnesota winter.

We have family in Dana Point. Everything around there is stupid expensive. I don't know about LA housing prices, but I haven't heard it's cheap. And you still have to maintain, if you own, especially in apartments, where your problems can trivially become your neighbors', too.

[–] melpomenesclevage@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

like I said. warm enough you won't freeze in the winter. because a ticket to california is cheaper than a shelter bed

that's the thing. you live there. so clearly a person can live there, but sending their surplus population to us, half compassionately, half throwing them away, is cheaper. it's cool. we can just be an externality, and at least nod at having a society so you don't have to. or at least we could til we got a san francisco guy in sacramento.

yeah rent is the problem. too many empty units while people are dying on the streets, and landlords are squeezing us all, trying to drive us to slavery.

edit: I'm saying there are people who will want to go home. who like the cold, or at least would rather deal with the cold than with the earthquakes and fires and heat stroke and being in a huge fucking city all the time.

[–] sxan@midwest.social 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I am not defending the practice; I was just saying I wouldn't be in a rush to come back. I love the cold, I like having seasons, but I would hate it here if I had to live in a drafty house and couldn't afford to heat it.

[–] melpomenesclevage@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

so you help them out with that. maybe provide insulation or some shit. I dunno. everything needs a little scaffolding to make it work. this seems like less than most stuff.

[–] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 4 points 11 hours ago

To compound matters, the US is currently moving all the new manufacturing jobs into southern red states, which will be interesting. Red staters are pissed because they are experiencing major cost of living adjustments, particularly in housing prices. Which is partly why they voted maga.

[–] papertowels@mander.xyz 10 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Shout-out to too good to go - an app that aims to minimize food waste by letting restaurants and grocery stores sell "surprise bags" of food at 1/3 to 1/2 off!

Good mythical morning has a few episodes featuring these!

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[–] alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com 139 points 20 hours ago (36 children)

Here in the Netherlands, the government agency for housing has the figures on how many second homes people own, but refuses to publish it.

Journalists have estimated that the number is about equal to the number of people looking for a house. About 400K on a population of 18M.

The scarcity is artificial.

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[–] crmsnbleyd@sopuli.xyz 25 points 17 hours ago

And people think it's the fault of the poor that they don't have enough :)

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 70 points 20 hours ago

It doesn't blow my mind, it infuriates me

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