this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023

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360

Neo-Nazis and the Far-Right Are Trying to Hijack Pro-Palestine Protests (www.vice.com)

submitted 1 year ago by stopthatgirl7@kbin.social to c/news@lemmy.world

67 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Neo-Nazis are showing up at protests in an attempt to push anti-Jewish conspiracy theories and tropes into the mainstream.

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[–] honey_im_meat_grinding@lemmy.blahaj.zone 75 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If anyone thinks this is a unique situation - this has happened so many times. The easiest example is the Nazis, or the "national socialists" because socialism was popular back then so they used the term despite starting with killing union workers and leftists.

Vincent Bevins talks in depth about this in his book If We Burn, where he discusses why (certain) protests fail by going through real life examples of movements that were hijacked by right wing extremists. This is not new or novel, this is going by the playbook on how to fight against movements that ask for justice, peace, more democracy, economic equality, and so forth.

[–] Synthuir@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Well, the Nazis didn’t just randomly co-opt that term, they were the result of a merger of two different political parties, one far right and the other far right but with some ✨ socialist characteristics ✨ (if you’re ethnically German). On the Night of the Long Knives, all of the socialist-leaning elements of the new NSDAP were murdered in cold blood by the SS.

[–] girlfreddy@sh.itjust.works 35 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Neo-nazis and far right wingnuts have 2 brain cells, and if any one of those scumbags could see beyond their noses they'd know they're too stupid to have any power.

Proof comes from watching the GOP flush America down the toilet.

[–] Nougat@kbin.social 52 points 1 year ago (1 children)

... too stupid to have any power.

The American Fascist Party controls the House of Representatives. Their criminal Dear Leader is going to get the nomination to be their candidate for President. And if he doesn't win, they will respond with violence.

[–] fosforus@sopuli.xyz 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

And if he doesn’t win, they will respond with violence.

I sure hope that violence monopoly that the legal government wields can be used for good also. They were a bit lackluster on Jan 6th but perhaps they learned something there.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

They were a bit lackluster on Jan 6th but perhaps they learned something there.

They weren't "lackluster" on Jan 6th - they simply treated that white supremacist lynch mob the way the US has always treated white supremacist lynch mobs... with kid gloves.

[–] Wakmrow@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Um. They absolutely did but not what you wish they did.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

they’re too stupid to have any power.

This is the kind of naive bullshit that keeps people complacent until they suddenly find themselves being marched off to the showers.

They are not stupid; they are an existential threat. Quit underestimating them!

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They are not stupid; they are an existential threat. Quit underestimating them!

Actually, the person you are responding to is correct - the far-right is too incompetent to gain power on their own. Power has to be handed to them by liberal regimes that can't handle working-class revolt without the indiscriminate violence the far-right offers. That is why states always treat the far-right with kid gloves and allows it to fester - the ruling elites know that they might need them someday.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Oh of course, it's the "liberals" who are the real enemy.

[–] BeautifulMind@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

it’s the “liberals” who are the real enemy

Maybe a simpler way of explaining that is that it always boils down to this; when forced to choose between supporting leftist/prog politics and fascism, it's the status-quo liberals that consistently choose fascism out of fear that anything lefty/social-justicey would be too disruptive

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm afraid they are - and always have been.

The only thing that makes fascism possible is liberals "reaching across the aisle."

[–] GoodbyeBlueMonday@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Call it pedantry if you want, but the fascists themselves are what truly "makes fascism possible".

Yes, there are plenty of folks have culpability in allowing these fucks gain control, from short-sighted collaborators who just want profit, idiots who think "they can't really be that bad", but there's an extent to which I think we should be careful about victim-blaming well-meaning (but naive) folks who believe that Liberty and Justice will win the day (being misled by whitewashed historical narratives who erase the boots on the ground required to make social and political changes - and the organization necessary to resist the rise of fascists).

I get your point, and clearly (from the paragraph I just typed) agree to an extent - I just think it's reductive to the point of undermining the movements against fascism when "liberals" all get thrown in the same basket.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Your analysis is almost there... but it's missing something crucial - it's missing an understanding of what the status quo actually is.

The people who are truly culpable for fascists existing are the people who need fascists to exist. Just look at the proto-fascist institution you are most familiar with - the police. The police did not invent itself - it was invented by a ruling elite that required the violence only a fascist element could provide. Fascism is not some aberration of the classical liberal nation-state - it's an inherent feature.

When those who benefit from the status quo is threatened by revolt from below it is this fascist element that will provide the violence that secures the safety of their power and privilege - in fact, sometimes they will literally hand the reigns of the state over to this fascist element (as happened in mid-20th century Germany, Italy and Japan). And it never happens without the acquiescence of the (so-called) moderates, centrists and, of course, liberals.

We can hate fascists as much as we want... but fascists did not breed themselves, school themselves in the most depraved forms of violence and then let themselves off the leash.

[–] GoodbyeBlueMonday@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We don't disagree: there's a short-sightedness that causes folks to say things like "once the boomers die out, things will be great". There are systemic issues that gauze the greed and fear and violence, and the folks that get swept up in these movements are in large part products of their environment, as we all are.

So we need to change the environment, but otherwise well-meaning folks don't want it to change because they benefit from it, even when they are vaguely aware that there are monsters out there that keep it that way. I'd like to think there's more liberals/moderates who would be allies against fascism if this kind of thing can be communicated in a way that doesn't alienate folks, but I'm also sympathetic to arguments that fiery language is necessary to rattle people out of comfort zones... So in sum, thanks for the good discussion.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Sure thing.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

...good point, actually.

[–] Zippit@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They were too stupid, especially in Europe they would get so much backlash they just went back to their basements.

But over the years, they got smarter, more eloquent in how they discreetly were racist, not only against Jews, but also Muslims, Africans, Southeast Asians, everyone that's different to be honest. The latest study shows 26% of Belgium is racist.

The news also plays into that, by giving up the DESCENT of a perpetrator, instead of his/her Belgian ID. Mostly for crimes not terrorism related. Day in day out, this black man hit his wife, this Turkish guy did that, ...

They never call them Belgians. If the perpetrator is a brown man born and raised here, his parents were born and raised here, but one of his grandfathers was from Morocco, Turkey, etc... They still describe him like 'a 23 year old Belgian man of Moroccon DESCENT....' this fed into it. Every time I saw this happen, I wrote to said paper to stop doing that, unless it involves a terrorist attack against a church, mosque, Jewish temple, café, etc... Even then, if they have a Belgian ID, they should still be described as Belgian guy with ideological differences...

Any news about Muslim girls harassed, assaulted, gangraped by Nazis was en still is getting downplayed and we're made out to be liars. It won't see the press. It still happens to this day.

Also, the latest I've seen is them discussing on certain forums whether it would be better for the 'protection' of Muslims (to start with) if they would put them in concentration camps? This one made me sick and I'm letting all my Belgian friends know that this is going on and fortunately everyone was outraged. But also, they have their heads in their asses, they even don't follow the news, because they can't do anything about it.

But someone has to know and do something. I'm thinking about compiling a list of all the forums i've seen this talked about and send them to every press agency, every community leader, also our new immigrant centers where there are a lot of young people, so they know not to engage and/or associate with these people and be educated against Nazi's.

[–] xkforce@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I wonder what rock youve been living under that the far right doesnt hold any power.

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[–] MxM111@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

And the speaker of the House is .. ?

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago

Most of them are too stupid to hold power, but there are enough smart but evil ones that it doesn't matter much.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago

Shocking absolutely nobody

[–] stella@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think it would be a good look to balance pro-Palestine demonstrations with anti-Nazi symbolism.

Would be funny to watch 'journalists' report on the Nazis in a protest when there are more people with anti-Nazi gear.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Couldn't they just report that Nazis and anti-Nazis are pro-Palestine?

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Couldn’t they just report that Nazis and anti-Nazis are pro-Palestine?

Didn't you read this part?

“Nine out of ten of them would probably happily commit a hate crime against anyone [at the pro-Palestine protest].”

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

I'm not sure what that changes

[–] stella@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That'd be a pretty weird report, but sure.

They can report anything.

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[–] clearleaf@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

All they need is one guy with a nazi flag and they can say everyone there is complicit. And they can bring their own nazi to model for them.

[–] stella@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I mean, they don't even need that.

They can say whatever they want, lol.

[–] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is kind of funny to see the nazis who hate muslims more than jews and those who hate jews more than muslims go against each other

[–] S_204@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

As a Jew.....none of this is funny.

There was a hate crime down the street from me, a young girl was followed home from a peace rally and her house was shot up.

This shit needs to stop. Islamophobia and Anti Semitism should not and cannot be tolerated as an outgrowth of this war.

[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Palestinians, antizionists, and their allies are some of the best prepared to counter antisemitic infiltration.

Having to build a movement that has to tiptoe around an opponent who will use every minor mistake or misunderstanding to conflate you with a Nazi (see Greta Thunberg's octopus plushie drama) really gives you a crash course on Judaism and antisemitic tropes.

Plus, one of the most popular fronts within Antizionism are the Jewish anti-zionists! I've learned more about the history of Judaism, the shoah, and the legacy of Jewish resistance to apartheid thanks to antizionists that is have never learned otherwise.

[–] Wahots@pawb.social 10 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately, it's already working on people susceptible to that sort of broad, hateful messaging. Eerie to see how easily people are taken over and recruited into the same sort of things that happened up to, during, and after Kristallnacht. And it's working worldwide. It's scary to see young people, even 21 year olds, getting arrested for posting threats that they will murder all their Jewish classmates at college. 5:33 in the news: https://youtu.be/K1wP1oPkzok?si=oCg67zMcPucRblaq

People are extremely vulnerable to it, especially without a strong grasp of world history.

[–] TheJims@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Trumps “very fine people”

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