this post was submitted on 28 Apr 2025
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[–] lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 2 hours ago

Ironically and not, that's exactly what Iron Man brought Nu-Spiderman to do in the CW movie. Government is crying about control, so a war profiteer recruits, illegally extricates from the country, arms and indoctrinates a kid to collaborate in a paramilitary action to oppress the following groups represented: war veterans, the elderly, women, foreigners, scientists, disabled, performance athletes, amputees and people seeking asylum.

Geez. Considering the previous movie was about a nazi takeover of the US, seems like someone shoud have seen things coming!

[–] drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

They made Spiderman rich in the movies because the writers a rich and think writing about a poor beneath them.

Other assholes include: Thor who is a dumb over privlaged fratboy who causes interndimentonal wars by acting like a dumb frat boy.

Ironman who was not only a war profiter who gave one the most powerful weapons platforms in the world to some teenager without any kind of oversight whose main story arc involves him fucking over poor people

Captain marvel is a brutal space pig who uses their powers to intimidate indigenous people on whatever planet she is on. Uses a weapon that can level city blocks and her character progression is that she needs to be more emotional. Plus she was fine committing genocide on the skrulls until she found out they had women.

Wakanda is a monarchist enthnostate presented as a utopia that tortures and murders outsiders and is presented in such a way that if it was the US the movie would be labeled as propaganda. Plus using 'colonizer' as a slur to call the people helping them even though they were never colonized

The eternals are boring

Wonda is everything that justifies the hate of mutants. But it's not her fault so she gets an pass. But it highlights everything stupid about the gay and minority parallel. No hates black or lbgtq people because they can think a hundred peope to death.

Almost all of these people are sone kind of aristocrat.

Black Widow spends all of her movie rescuing like 12 people while letting and entire gulag of men die in an avalanche without even flinching. Not to mention the fact that her and Hawkeye worked for the CIA and probably overthrow countless democracies.

The guardians of the galaxy employ a dangerous psychopathic racoon who thinks nothing of murder.

The least aggregous is Captain America, a living propaganda poster. Antman, one of the only poor person appearing in End Game is treated like a joke even though he should be the most dangerous one among them.

USAgent was treated like crap before he did anything wrong to the point I kind of felt bad for him

Getting rid of Zemos direct Nazi ties makes him almost a hero. And those ties are less then SHIELD's and less then that of most countries

Also, do not forget the beef between Disney and DeSantis only started when people saw they were working together. And only do scenes involving any kind of homosexuality in such away as to edit them out for whatever dictatorship they want to impress.

Also the original MCU Quicksilver was a thousand times better then yet another quipy hero that we don't need. Plus asshole Quicksilver is closer source material.

Edit: wtf am i getting down voted for?

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 25 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

I always think back to this one quote, something like

You can tell the morals of a society by the myths they tell themselves. We tell stories of heroes who save the world then quietly go back to their day job until they're needed again

[–] Zizzy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 4 hours ago

I read that and I actually think positively on it. To me, i read it as the good person doesnt stand by and do nothing, they fight evil as it crops up, even at the cost of their peaceful life they desire. Im not sure I can agree to any one type of story them we tell though. Its pretty varied.

[–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

I'm curious, what's you're take on that then?

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 1 points 1 hour ago

Liberalism in a nutshell.

We just want an insurance policy, not for anything to change. We want to protect what we've built, write off the horrors of the world as isolated events like a collapsing building or asteroid impact. They stop the villains from rocking the boat, even when the villains have a morally superior position because "you have to do it the right way"

But the heroes aren't too morally superior... They can't make us feel bad. They do something about problems in front of them, and then go back to their job. They don't use their power to actually address root issues, they don't try to lead, they just defend the status quo

But, then heroes started to get more complex. Batman is a billionaire who fights crime, despite having the ability to actually fix the crime problem in Gotham, he just fights. He suffered a random act of violence as a child, and so that instilled a sense of justice. He works with the police and uses his wealth... In any way except actually changing things

Spiderman learned the hard way noblesse oblige, that his power gives him the responsibility to use it well. And he does, he saves people around him while also actively working to make the world better at his day job - inside the system. He's basically an activist

Then you have captain America, who puts his sense of justice above the system... But he mostly works inside it, but sometimes it's infiltrated and he fights or it's wrong and he stands against it

But when you get to more recent heroes, they start to get dark. The system is broken, so they work outside it as best they can. They don't have day jobs anymore. They kill sometimes. They make sacrifices, they fail. They question themselves.

People scream at them "where were you when we needed you?" And they explain the answer to that question to the readers through character development, even though there's nothing they can say to the victims

The heroes aren't infallible, they aren't strong or wise enough, they constantly struggle, and they fail. This isn't a hobby for them, they don't go back to work. But they keep trying, especially at great personal cost

And they carry every failure with them as penance for not being good enough to have saved us when we needed them

[–] Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com 32 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

If only there was some record of US military budget being spent on making these films and limiting the way that the US and it's armed forces could be portrayed in these films... Surely not.

[–] lunasandwich@lemmy.world 7 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Wow, now I understand why I hated all those movies.

[–] Guns0rWeD13@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

there are plenty of reasons to hate those movies. this is just another.

[–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 18 points 7 hours ago (4 children)

superheroes are "benign" fascists, it's fiction that would never work. Even in the gooest, saccharine interpretations I would be the one criticizing superman lol

[–] Paramania@lemmy.world 8 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I question how many comics you have read then since many of these characters were created as anti-fascist figures. Captain America, Superman, and The X-Men for example were all vocally against fascism, bigotry, racism, and more.

Captain America for instance has a history of being in opposition to his government on issues around civil rights. He has always been an icon of anti-fascism.

Of course non-media literate people and just people who only know the character from posters and t shirts see the stars and stripes and think he's simply a "patriotic" hero.

As far as whether it would "work" in reality, well I think that is beside the point. These are about fantasy, myth making and legends. They are not supposed to be real. They explore ideas around what makes a hero with layers of fantasy and unreality that make the stories unpractical for our real world and to dismiss the idea they explore because of that misses the point of the art. But...

The moral questions that would arise if they were to exist the real world have also been handled really well by the comic book medium, books like The Watchmen, Rising Stars, V for Vendetta, Miracleman (pretty much anything by Alan Moore tbh), and more.

Comics and superheroes are modern day myth making, and the value of that shouldn't be dismissed. Captain America, Spider-Man, The X-Men and more have inspired generations to view altruistic acts and things to be admired and aspired to. And the value of that should not be underestimated.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 43 minutes ago

I agree. When the heroes are vigilantes, they're only acting as vigilantes because either the police are corrupt, or the police are overwhelmed.

I am not a Batman fan, and love to joke that if he and the other Gotham billionaires paid a reasonable tax, Gotham wouldn't be such a hellscape. But, the Batman theme is that the police are frequently corrupt and always overwhelmed, so a civilian needs to step up and protect the people.

Spiderman's whole deal is "with great power comes great responsibility." He puts his life on the line to protect people, and mostly from small-scale disasters like a run-away train.

What this comic gets absolutely wrong is that comic book heroes never try to stop someone from changing the status quo if they're doing it peacefully. The only ones they try to stop are the ones trying to do it by force.

[–] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 10 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Also it bleeds into other media. Like the kid's show Paw Patrol. I am obviously far too old to watch the show and while I have enjoyed watching kids stuff from time to time I just haven't been able to spare rhe time for that one.

However based on a cursory knowledge of it and reviews from youtubers the show has some really bad ideas in the subtext.

Firstly the shows basic services in the community are fully privatized. They even have some scenes where outsiders want to call the cops or some other local service only to be reminded by locals that in that community they are done by this kid and his dogs.

Also that kid who commands paw patrol? He is like the avengers in that he lives quite apart from the community he is supposed to be serving.

This is akin to how billionaires don't just live far away... they live REALLY far away and secluded from most people and don't interact with them directly. This is despite the fact that they control extremely critical assets to the community, they are not just isolated from the community, they are also unaccountable to them.

[–] Irelephant@lemm.ee 5 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

So, paw patrol is a libertarian dytopia?

[–] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 2 points 2 hours ago

Pretty much.

[–] Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com 9 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Ironically Superman is one of the least fascy superheroes, at least when written by anyone who understands the character.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 12 points 3 hours ago

Tbh they're just misrepresenting the argument. Most (famous) superheros aren't fascists. They spend a lot of time punching imperialists in the face at a minimum.

What they represent is a social desire for the hero-figure, the strong-man, to fix society's problems instead of collective and democratic action. That's the dilemma people like Alan Moore are pointing out when they talk about how comics can enable fascism.

[–] piyuv@lemmy.world 7 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Fair enough, but watchmen is cool

[–] Sylvartas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

It's cool because it deconstructs the whole thing, down to having a quasi god as one of the heroes

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

And having Captain America be The Comedian, because American exceptionalism is a joke.

[–] tmyakal@lemm.ee 1 points 2 hours ago

The Comedian was based on Peacemaker. The initial pitch was that all of the Watchmen would be DC's (at the time) recently-acquired Charlton characters. DC nixed the idea, so Moore just tweaked them and renamed them.

[–] piyuv@lemmy.world 9 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

Some versions do try to tell a more complex story, like The Boys and Invincible. My Hero Academia is also there as an anime

[–] njm1314@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

Doesn't Invincible literally work with and for a secret government military organization?

[–] piyuv@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Season 3 spoilers:

Tap for spoilerMark realizes Cecil is using them and nearly kills him, leaving Pentagon. There’s an epic episode showing Cecil’s past

[–] njm1314@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Yeah I haven't actually seen season three yet, but I have read all the comics and I got to tell you he keeps working with them.

[–] superniceperson@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 hours ago

Only at first, when he was naive.

thenThe shadowy organization betrayed him because hes not fully has many, and invincible basically starts fighting them while still fighting the impotent bad guys.

[–] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 8 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

I like One Punch Man. While he is a hero. The fact that he does it for fun and is frustrated at being so powerful makes it really stand out.

[–] piyuv@lemmy.world 6 points 2 hours ago

I love OPM, however I think it’s more about shonen anime stereotypes rather than western superhero stereotypes

[–] Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee 4 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Saitama is hilarious in the driest way possible, which is a humor that not everyone can appreciate

[–] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 6 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

The pilot episode where he meets a crazed villain who loses his shit when Saitama tells him 'I am a hero for fun', and goes on a rant on what a stupid backstory that is... before he gets blown to bits with one single punch.

[–] Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee 3 points 3 hours ago

The running joke of him always losing at video games because he just does the same move again and again.

His entire relationship with Genos

[–] Amanduh@lemm.ee 1 points 4 hours ago

Umbrella academy?

Loving invincible currently

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