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I appreciate the picture they included, as it is not flattering in any way, which is the least of what he deserves in response to his intolerance.
The catch is that we're all sort of socialized to believe that mockery/bullying is a great way to show you're better than someone else. I don't remember who said it, but a hundred years back I was listening to NPR and a humble academic was trying to express that even when he tried not to he found himself comparing himself to others. Sort of stroking his own ego and realizing that he was proud that he was better than others at a certain thing. He said that he thinks it might be something built into us, and that regardless of whether we want it or not it's something we do. It's actually why I hate stuff like this. People always say it's karma, and it teaches lessons. Most times hate breeds hate. People who get attacked as a response don't tend to learn the right lessons. I am not saying they will have a "come to Jesus" moment where they realize that promoting hate as a whole is pretty rotten. I am saying that I think sitting around and mocking people for their shitty actions is pretty shit in itself. I think it reinforces two things the spin-machine's pull and this ugly part of ourselves that likes to put "people in their place" and bully them in order to get what we want. Which tends to be sitting on top of others. Eh. Idk. Idk if any of this makes sense, I guess I am just saying that in general this stuff sucks. I take a Simpsons approach to it if I can, and "just don't look" but I understand why a lot of people believe it is their civic duty to stop the mouthpieces of oppression. I just don't know if mockery works in this case.
I think in this case, mockery does not really do much. There needs to be larger punishments. Financial or prison time or something else idk.
There's the paradox of tolerance, and i think as a society globally, we've been tolerating intolerance for too long, and now we've ended up with fascists in the Whitehouse and in other governments around the world. It's a hard issue to solve. Idk what the solution is, but mockery doesn't seem to resolve it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance?wprov=sfla1
I like games, and I like playing turn-based games. I have been playing JRPGS for most of my (gaming) life, and I just recently got back into them. I have been playing fan-translations and look up the folks who translate the stories to thank them. I was playing Bahamut Lagoon and looked up the translator and went down this giant rabbit hole seeing as they were both a) trans and b) dead. I found out this whole thing about Kiwi Farms and kill counts and the poor trans creators that all were pushed to the brink by harassment. I went on this huge mental journey trying to understand how broken an individual has to be to see a vulnerable person and think "if we only push them x-amount they'll fall over the edge!" I am not guy, and I have never had testosterone. From gals I have talked to about this they've commented about how it can make you rage, or how it feels like driving the worlds fastest race car but you have no real control of it. I can't understand male rage, but I can understand ostracization. Equally, I can look at a human and know they're dead ass wrong, but also understand that they're more than likely a broken human using whatever tools they've got to navigate their world. (I also know it's not just guys, and that there are gals with hate in their hear too. It's just I really think the gameosphere is predominantly male) I have never once won a damn thing personally by telling someone off. I have won things by being a personable human and finding a middle ground. Putting in the time and creating relations with folks. Shit has changed a lot over the years, and I am not sure if things can really be fixed anymore. But I will say that I think in general we have poor coping skills on the liberal side. I mean conservatives will burn everything to the ground, but that doesn't mean we have to stoop to their level. It's just a stereotype, and general reason why people seem to dislike liberals so much is because I think they think they're "snooty." I am a brown gal as far as folks can see, so I have had my own fair share of eating shit because of people's racists assumptions. Even the most "educated" individuals can be absolutely trash when it comes to being respectful to others if they let their biases take the leads. You kind of have to learn to be tolerant of people's bullshit in general, or it'll eat you whole.
I have seen (and at one point read) about this paradox of tolerance. I understand the issue. I personally think the reason why we have fascists in the Whitehouse for a reason. It's because it's really hard to survive in a healthy way for most Americans. Equally, because Trump is a corporate candidate. So basically on both sides he is appealing because he says "I will bring labor back to America" while actually being a easy palm to grease for whatever wealthy individuals need. Likewise, a lot of people in middle America and below believe a) nothing good will ever happen for/to them and that the government doesn't really do anything for them so why should they care? b) that they can't afford groceries, so why should they care if some "faggots" get their feelings hurt and c) that you can work yourself to death, put in overtime hours, and all that happens is your taxes go up and you see only a sliver of the work you put in. I have lived in several depressed economies, I have also lived by this point in several wealthy ones. It seems to the wealthy, the wealth never ends regardless of spending or habits. To the poor, the wealth never comes and it breeds a lot of emptiness and anger. They don't really think about one another, because the poor don't really know how well off a lot of the wealthy have it and the wealthy keep themselves healthy by not thinking about erroneous shit.
I am liberal, and I wanted more than life for Kamala to win. I can understand though, how she did not. It's because I think many people live within the sphere of their hopes, instead of the ugly truths. My biggest complaint about liberal governments as a whole are that they are a) too permissive of bad actors and b) they don't ever seem to make moves and when they do it's always too much money on stupid shit. I don't think my complaints are that far off of conservative views of the party, and I am in the party. Biggest difference here is I am not making the laws. Yes, in theory I influence the laws through voting. But I am not making them. So many people hate Americans right now. They don't understand how they voted for Trump. I did not. I didn't vote for him, but people cannot stop generalizing as if all Americans went to bat and did so. To be perfectly honest, old boy more than likely cheated to get himself in the seat he's in. But I still do think he got a lot of votes regardless. And to be honest, I in a way was terrified (as I was living in a red area at the time) as to what thing would look like otherwise.
I am one person though. I am not going to list all my intersectionalities, but I will say I have gotten sick off of all this chatter that comes out of both sides. I think there was intent there obviously, but even if we scaled back all the bots and agents of terror you'd still see people smacking one another with sticks. That's not civilized, and I don't think it's a healthy way to solve problems. I come from a people who have been pretty much eradicated from this planet. I have faced a lot of anger in my life, as it's my first reaction. To say "fuck that shit" and get pissy and want to stand up for everything that's wrong in this world. But as I age, I find that it's not really helping me as a whole and that I'd much rather just be as healthy as I plausibly can be. Likewise, I hate bullying, I always have. I don't think it's healthy and I think it's trashy as a whole. It's like picking a scab or something, it's just a bad habit to form. So I have decided, as I come from a people of love - and that the people I have always admired have been those that have found the strength in kindness that I will follow suit. I don't need to push my ideas on others, although I am free to express them (especially on the internet). I just think in general that we can support the bettering of this planet/community/people/party/etc - by being optimistic realists. Not in a toxic way, just understanding that life itself is rough. Humans are messy. That even your worst enemy generally isn't a puppy kicker but just a person who is probably broken in their own way and will more than likely not get healthy support they need to overcome their pain. Equally that there's a ton of people who are being fought for but still don't get the support they need to overcome their pain. That we're in this huge terrifying space of uncertainty even without assholes tearing apart protective legislation. I just think we need to cultivate more kindness in these times because just about the only thing that ever makes me feel better is such and I have seen it build bridges all through out my life.
It's really to each their own, and everyone gets a seat at the table as long as they're not touching kids, killing folks or animals as far as I am concerned. The world needs fighters like you. The world needs lovers like me. The world needs a little bit of everything (I mean, I personally could do without the above crap), I just wish that most people got that. I will say even in tolerance, I saw someone who got thumbed for being a pedophile leave one environment and surround themselves with the elderly. So like, even in that case I think there's a place for everyone. I just think you know, people have to want to do maybe not so much the "right" thing but just want to grow as a person. Cause from that space you can uplift yourself, as well as others.
Idk this was a huge rant, I hope you get me. I get you. I too don't know what the solution is. I just wish mockery wasn't such a huge part of how people "flip the script."
p.s. - Idk about other governments, but the American government as far as I am concerned is almost exclusively a government for the corporations, by the upper class. So I think there's a large disconnect between the rhetoric and the actuality.
Yeah! I do totally get where you're coming from. No worries about the length of the text, I enjoyed reading it.
I guess it's just hard, and we have to try our best in whatever ways we can and try to be the best people we can be. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter :)
Yes, I agree. I think being the best you can be as you can be is quite important. By that I mean, you've got to work with what you've got. My gal and I have been talking lately about what makes people feel "thrown away" and what solutions could be applied. I wish there were more sources for community, it feels often like everyone is either sleeping, being an actor in a play, or putting up walls. Things have changed so much, even in the past ten years the way people socialize and the places people can socialize. It's really deeply saddened me to be honest. Although there are still people out there trying their best to build bridges to one another and it's those people I root for. It's just, nobody likes to be ostracized (I think that's what has caused a lot of mental health issues in the first place), and nowadays being social with strangers is often seen as offensive. It's crazy though, because how the hell does one exercise their humanity without it =P! It often makes me wonder if we were just born awful, and learn to be better than that. Lord of the Flies style =P!
Just as long as you're not out here giving more than you've got I think life is fine. Wave your flags of peace and come as you are and be the best you can be because I can't tell you how many people I have seen grumbling and grumpy and leave with a smile on their face after we've had a brief conversation. I think we're all so dubious of one another and it's really messed things up =P!
Thank you for your comments as well, right back at you and I wish you all the best and that you go in peace =)!
I get what you're saying.
I think it's worth considering that for what you're saying to apply in this particular case, his hard-wired being-better-than-others reflex is being triggered by his not having committed suicide. A feat currently being pulled off by roughly 8 billion people.
Even if we ignore the nauseating specifics of what he said, this has to be the most pathetic brag in history. Imagine being such a loser that this is what makes you feel good. It's difficult.
I'm guessing that there's probably a large amount of shitty childhood, perhaps trauma, powering the engines of becoming this proficient at being an asshole, but I find it hard to care enough to contemplate how he could be fixed. It's certainly too hard to feel sorry for him.
At the very least, I think the lack of giving a fuck about his current plight, and possibly the wish to see him punished, could easily be just as hard-wired in us.
There's also your comment about him not learning the right lesson from this backlash. I'd argue that not all punishment is meant to reform the perpetrator; sometimes they're sacrificed, as it were, to teach the rest of us a lesson.
I love two very sweet trans suicide survivors. One of them, you'd never know. The other has to wear their attempt openly. Life is fucking brutal for a lot of queer folks, let alone trans folks. I think a lot of people see them as ill, or not even human. I watch White Underbelly from time to time (I think that's what it's called). There are a handful of queer/trans individuals on there, including someone who de-transitioned and later unfortunately took their own lives. A lot of people aren't going to talk about it, because saying things out loud can a) make you a target b) get you sent to some kind of ward but I think a lot of transgender people are actively suicidal (I mean you can just look at the statistics). I think a lot of it has to do with the lack of moral support they get as a whole from other people. I think being in state of transition (as in say, not having the medical support you need) is already rough. But when you live with the fact that there are very limited spaces in this world you can actually navigate "safely." Or the fact that most people think you're a freak and would prefer if you would just be "normal" but being "normal" is basically like killing yourself anyways - it's just a brutal space to be in. A lot of the community as a whole is vulnerable. When I was coming up, I had two audacious gays comment about how they don't even understand why we celebrate Pride anymore. It seemed so surreal to me, as they seemed to have been really coming from some kind of place of privilege to not even understand why so many people turn inwards to the community for support. So many people have to live in this space where they are tolerated but not truly accepted. They lose their support networks, and many tend to never make anything as compared to their counterparts. They deal with a lot of emotional baggage that most people never have to bring to their doors. There's a beauty, and curse in the found-family aspect of the queer community. As I think community as a whole is wonderful to cultivate (we're social creatures), but that lot of the queer scenes can promote bad habits (addiction). I think that one comes from the spaces we've been forced to be at so long, but eh!
I don't know who this man is, but I am kind of thankful for that. Personally, I often say a little prayer for folks who are so broken that they find their money through reving folks up via the spin machine spouting hateful shit their kid selves probably would have looked shock to hear them say. We buy in to our bullshit, even if it starts as an act, humans aren't as quick as we'd like to think we are and it's really easy to get lost in the sauce when we socialize as a wave.
I don't know too much about Andrew Tate or his brother. I do know that there is a sort of cruelty that comes with certain individuals who relish in Trump's political gain. They think that the world has gone quite soft, and that survival of the fittest means brute "strength." That it's a dog eat dog world, and they would rather be "top dog," than "bottom bitch." I think sex trafficking is bad, but I often wonder - why is there a market? What cultivates this scene? Cause it can't just be the rich. There's something we're not addressing that very clearly is the elephant in the room. Something between our inherent belief that life is a) precious yet seemingly b) cheap at the same time. Or that socioeconomic status denotes actual value or something. Or even that rowdy women need to shut up or some shit. Idk. There's something that is some very ugly belief that is out there and perhaps even held by the majority of people alive that we either academically/socially have buried that we cannot address because it's something people (used to) just say behind closed doors. I've heard in on all sides too from the poorest to the richest, and all the colors of the rainbow. People are hiding their true feelings as to not ostracize themselves in public (I don't believe in the shit above, I am just saying there is something we're not addressing that needs to be addressed in an intelligent (and perhaps even subversive) way that educates individuals and shifts their skewed views to healthy ones). Eh. I forgot what I was saying as a whole, I am pretty tired of expressing myself here and I wanna go do something I enjoy instead hahaha!
I guess I am just saying - there is an cruel joy that I have seen a lot of people who enjoy media like this hold. I was working with youth when Trump got elected the first time. There are a lot of well of white guys celebrating and laughing in the faces of the various multiethnic folks (especially the black and brown women) when it happened. I don't think these people see punishment of their movement as something healthy. Instead seeing it as an example of how "we the gestapo" would lock all those that don't believe in ANTIFA values up for life if we could. Which puts everything in a us vs them mindset, and they already came to fight which just fuels the fire.
I don't have solutions, and I am not saying individuals who commit crimes shouldn't be punished (is this a double negative?). I am just saying that it's a complex issue, that is made perhaps more complex by the unified idealisms behind the bigotry. For movements grow stronger with unification, and liberalism tends to be a pick and mix smattering of individuals who believe in human rights, but are not as unified. Which outside of the actual cult-like worship - makes the entire republican movement look like cultist. Regardless of how hardcore people are or not.
EH!
Idk yet again, if any of this made sense - it's just what came to mind in response. I hope it makes sense to you and I am not trying to pick a fight or anything. I just am a me =P! And while I would love to still invoke the angry feminist I was growing up, I really have mellowed out with age and just kinda like...wanna chill even if everything is shit. Cause if they're coming for folks, they sure as fuck are coming for me. So I guess I might as well enjoy what I got, while I got it and plan for the worst if I gotta hit it.