It's sorta funny being a tall, middle aged white guy. I so rarely get shit for my idiosyncrasies. I can't remember the last time people gave me grief about masking, reading constantly, not drinking, or being vegan. People in my life seem to learn very quickly that if they start bullshit with me, I'm going to drop 10 peer reviewed studies on why they're wrong. I'm legit sorry for people who aren't born into that privilege. My partner gets a lot more crap from acquaintances than I do.

My managers at work seem to understand that I mask because 1) my partner's health isn't great and I have a legit reason to keep her safe, 2) I will drop 100 peer reviewed studies on you if you suggest otherwise, 3) it negatively affects nothing about how I do my job, and 4) fuck you I will take it to the union and labour tribunals if I have to, and you'll look like an absolute fuckface.

So guess how I felt when I got an email saying there was a big plan to get the one remaining masking student in the school to stop masking. I've never once asked this teen girl why she still masks, I just felt that it's none of my business. But now I see a bunch of middle aged white guy managers deciding to make health choices for this young non-white girl, and it makes my blood boil. Not even for the covid thing, but every page of theory I've read says how fucked up this situation is.

So I talked to the staff directly, said that long covid is the largest chronic disease affecting children. Said that there's an abundance of research on masking and education. Said there's no medical or educational body that suggests doing what you're doing, and that you've brought zero evidence for the claims you're making. Said that this girl's age is far old enough that the WHO and other research have shown that masking has no effect on her learning. Said that she's a human being that deserves to make her own choices, and that children aren't resilient to pressure from adults.

That was just the start of the issue. The anti-masking staff took it really personally. I was objectively not mean. I never raise my voice or use insults. But I was dragged into several meetings over my attitude. As far as I can tell, I was "too verbal" over the issue. People felt that I was calling them cruel or stupid, which other teaching staff in the room with us can attest that I wasn't. It's all incredibly over the top. For the first time since I was a student, I have quite a few people who won't say hello to me in the corridor. Some of these people I've known for over a decade, and we've been very cordial and productive together.

If I may bring up my experience being a vegan: people don't like being wrong on a subject. If someone is made to feel like an evil person, even if I explicitly never said anything close to that, their rage metre goes to 100%. I'm sure plenty of non-vegan leftists have similar reactions with other modes of oppression. I'm guessing people get pretty illogical when called a racist or misogynist?

Anyhow, it just sucks here. Meetings are being held with parents. Calls are being made to health authorities and educational offices. It's tense in a way that I'm absolutely not used to.

Fuck white liberals

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[–] MF_BROOM@hexbear.net 12 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

If I may bring up my experience being a vegan: people don't like being wrong on a subject. If someone is made to feel like an evil person, even if I explicitly never said anything close to that, their rage metre goes to 100%. I'm sure plenty of non-vegan leftists have similar reactions with other modes of oppression. I'm guessing people get pretty illogical when called a racist or misogynist?

As someone who is also vegan and anti-COVID/anti-letting-pandemics-spread-in-perpetuity, yeah, I think some liberals and even self-identifying leftists feel offended and maybe experience some kind of cognitive dissonance when someone around them is doing an action that is reducing harm more than their own action (assuming they have the capacity to do so, I know masks can be expensive and not in everyone's budget, and maybe not everyone has access to a local mask bloc, but I digress). And sometimes resort to whataboutisms that are annoying as fuck to justify their own behavior ("You say we should all veganize our lifestyles as much as we practically can, but what about the Inuit, or people with food insensitivities, or people who rely on others for meals?" or "You say we should all be masking, but how do you expect deaf people to understand you with a mask on?") Acting as though there aren't alternatives (like speech-to-text apps or even learning ASL) for the latter, and as if I'm specifically asking those specific groups of people to go vegan in the former (emphasis on the "as far as practical" part applies).

Anyways, I'm sorry you're going through all of that bullshit.

[–] mrfugu@hexbear.net 18 points 13 hours ago

People felt that I was calling them cruel or stupid

I mean if the shoe fits…

projection

[–] TheModerateTankie@hexbear.net 8 points 11 hours ago

You may or may not want to show them this or leave it somwhere: Study: Covid's racial disparities made some white people less vigilant about the virus

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 10 points 12 hours ago

If someone is made to feel like an evil person, even if I explicitly never said anything close to that, their rage metre goes to 100%.

This is extremely common with people. All of us are susceptible to it. But some people just let that emotional response run the whole show. Most people would rather lash out at you than consider anything that harms their sense of self worth. Cowards, frankly.

The oatmeal did a comic about it https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

[–] mechwarrior2@hexbear.net 30 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

when I got an email saying there was a big plan to get the one remaining masking student in the school to stop masking

wtf?? forward the email to her and her family, they deserve to know these people are scheming on her

[–] ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net 13 points 13 hours ago

100% this

[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 28 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

People felt that I was calling them cruel or stupid, which other teaching staff in the room with us can attest that I wasn't.

i dunno man sounds like you work with a bunch of cruel and stupid people.

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 23 points 16 hours ago

I'm of the opinion that the average Westoid is a sociopath, who will willingly cause harm to another if it improves their own comfort.

That said, I have quietly noticed many red flags in these people for a long time.

[–] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 28 points 16 hours ago

Fuck those assholes. I hope you can help protect that student.

[–] MizuTama@hexbear.net 32 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I'm guessing people get pretty illogical when called a racist or misogynist?

The understatement of the century. You're pretty spot on, you'll get all types of rage-induced pushback if your personal decisions make someone else feel like they're morally lacking, and masking is one of those culprits nowadays. Good luck and great job handling this situation.

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 17 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

This might be white male privilege, but I'm often very roundabout when confronting people about being a bigot. There's probably a few times recently where someone deserved to hear "YOU'RE A FUCKING RACIST" but I selfishly choose the path that keeps the relationship intact.

[–] RiotDoll@hexbear.net 10 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

i enjoy the hunt and privilege or not, if i have the time and spoons i indulge in recovering people i have bonds with that tell me i already know there's something worthwhile inside - but the fact is it's mostly a slow anti-courtship of the dissolution of the friendship

but to absolve myself i gotta be able to say i tried. i don't believe in defaulting to, or even using extremes without exhausting kinder roads.

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 9 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

I'm a strong believer in letting people know multiples times, explicitly, how they fucked up before calling off a friendship. I think you're doing the right thing.

With friends or even just people who aren't my boss, it's easy to just have a tough conversation once in a while. If someone was against being able to admit they're wrong and grow, I wouldn't be their friend.

[–] MizuTama@hexbear.net 7 points 12 hours ago

I think this is the hard part of encouraging growth and coalition building. It's so easy to just ignore and only slightly harder to cut someone off imo. The constant friction of telling someone you care about, you think what they're doing is harmful? That's difficult.

I've basically had a few friends that I've managed to yank away from a lot of reactionary tendencies, and that may have only been possible with literal decades of rapport and trust built up, as well as this friend having a higher-than-average self-awareness.

I know I've almost definitely avoided hard conversations regarding situations where I'm privileged in the past, which is why I feel a compulsion towards grace towards others who have done it towards my particular plight.

Also, frankly, being "roundabout" and calm has been more effective in my experience and has done wonders towards deprogramming reactionary or bigoted tendencies in those with whom I am in relations with. Though I am also mostly in social contact with marginalized groups and find it easier to address by relating struggles.

i.e., it wasn't difficult (in my experience) having some black folk realize their response towards the trans-allegory of Spiderwoman (US treat-pilled conversations) in the recent Spider-verse movie was bigoted by drawing attention towards how their response mirrored those that discredited the feelings of joy and representation we had when Miles became mainstream.

Frankly, not sure how well my tactics can be used in predominantly white spaces. I know it's generally effective with most people, but from my secondhand understanding, primarily white spaces and the actions and rhetoric used amongst white people tend to have some different dynamics, and I haven't bothered trying to wrap my head around it. The class rhetoric (note: different than analysis in this case) that tends to serve as a neat bow is still there, but I find that to be most useful once I've already generated buy-in, not sure how it serves as the sole point of purchase.

Generally, I have found ironically that the less people feel I'm pushing viewpoints onto them, the more receptive they are. This doesn't often apply to those closest to me, though; there often I just go some version of "that's fucked" and then explain why I think what they said is fucked.

[–] StillNoLeftLeft@hexbear.net 27 points 17 hours ago

Thank you so much for standing up for the student in this incredibly absurd and shitty situation! gold-communist

[–] Robert_Kennedy_Jr@hexbear.net 17 points 16 hours ago

I generally stay close lipped about my eating habits around people because I know people get immediately defensive and antagonistic when they discover an outlier in their midst, and I could really do with not hearing the same tired questions about where I get my protein or did I know that in native languages vegetarian means bad hunter???

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 13 points 16 hours ago

fidel-salute-big

Much respect to you. Thank you for doing what you can. Fuck those fuckers.

[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 13 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Veganism, masking, asking people to stop tailgating or texting while driving . . .

The latest season of The Rehearsal examines some of this (through the lens of pilot / co-pilot interactions). Ultimately the best actionable advice the-plan had was to introduce role-play scenarios, on the theory that if people are playing a "character" they're less inhibited.

We could probably all do with reading some studies on how to overcome defensiveness when someone's willingly endangering everyone around them. But ultimately I guess it's the hyper-individualist, don't-tell-me-what-to-do capitalist Protestant mindset that needs to be eradicated if we're going to make real progress on this.

[–] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 8 points 16 hours ago

The Mr Blunt and Mr Allears was more or less something i used to do before going to work. My job situation generally means I have to be both, kitchens are fast and communication is key to not working way harder than you need to, so there's no time to mince words and you cant just blow past a problem and hope it goes away either, if a pasta pot has boiled down and needs more water and for that water to reheat, I gotta Allears that and then Blunt the re-arragning of orders to keep things in sync. Also being frank and assertive tends to give people the impression you're looking out for number one, be blunt on other people's behalf when you can cause its way easier to stick up for others than yourself, no one has to confront the boss when he's out of line with someone cause another person will do it for them.