this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2025
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[–] darkmarx@lemmy.world 357 points 4 days ago (11 children)

Every year, we do an employee survey to see how management is doing; like a report card for management. In the last 3 years, mine has come back with the highest company scores for employee engagement, job satisfaction, and project completion rate. I was asked to give a presentation to the other officers and managers about things I do to get those scores.

The presentation was basically one slide that I expanded to 10. It came down to creating the expectation, for the folks who report to me, that a work week is 37.5 hours (our full-time week) and no more. I make it clear that if my team is working overtime, I've failed. If that happens, together we look at their project commitments and reduce the workload, or get training, or whatever is needed.

Working folks to the point of burnout is NEVER a valid solution. Respecting personal time pays dividends to everyone. It's amazing how treating people like adults makes them happier and more productive. It's such a low bar and yet seems so foreign to people.

After my presentation, multiple execs argued thar I'd get more done if I pushed my team harder. Our company President pulled up all of our project completion rates, and asked them to explain the discrepancy. The three who complained the most about my approach were in the bottom five.

Data continually shows people are happy when they have a solid, predictable, work life balance. Happy people are more productive and are willing to do more in the long run. And they stick around, so you don't have to keep looking for new employees. Everyone wins. Yet, there is such a resistance to it by certain people, and I don't understand why.

Tldr: Expecting your people to give up their personal life for work, it's a clear sign that you are a terrible leader.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 134 points 4 days ago (9 children)

Yet, there is such a resistance to it by certain people, and I don’t understand why.

People are emotional driven. It might be something like "I worked 80 hour weeks. If I accept that that wasn't the right move, then I have to admit I fucked up. I'm a good smart person. I don't fuck up. Thus, this idea is wrong and I reject it"

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 53 points 4 days ago (1 children)

sounds like how my parents rationalize my childhood

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[–] fubarx@lemmy.world 80 points 4 days ago (8 children)

I make it clear that if my team is working overtime, I've failed.

Bingo!

This was my attitude too. If anyone has to work late or weekends, it was a failure in resource allocation, which is a management function.

The only exception was if people had to get on late night calls with people in other timezones, in which case they were expected to take the equivalent time off at their own convenience.

Another easy win is bullshit agile daily standups. I made them twice a week, and no longer than 15 minutes and only to cover potential blockers, not status reports. That alone made everyone happier. In one case, the team finished a project that had been languishing for three years in three months and shipped it out.

It's really about respecting people's time.

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[–] natecox@programming.dev 42 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I worked Bay Area tech as a dev for several years; the thing they are really really good at is manipulating young people (mostly men, really) into thinking that if they aren’t living work then they are bad people. All of your free time should be spend thinking about work, building things for work, “leveling up” your skills to be better at work. Family and friends are not important, only work. The gaslighting and emotional manipulation is cult-like.

I once had the founder of the startup I was working for tell me that he had no idea I cared about the company after I gave a presentation on how we could pivot our product to be more effective. He then asked how he could get more of my time for the company. I was working 60-80 hour weeks already.

I’m an EM now and those experiences shaped how I run my team: work is work, not your life. You do your work so that you can afford to do the things you actually care about, and that is how it should be.

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[–] tgirlschierke@lemmy.blahaj.zone 45 points 3 days ago
[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 34 points 3 days ago (1 children)

God I hope he knows he ended up on LinkedIn lunatics

[–] filcuk@lemmy.zip 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You think people like this have enough self-awareness to be ashamed?

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[–] callyral@pawb.social 44 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

Begin banana metaphor.

Bananas are great. If I ate a healthy amount of bananas a week, I'd be happy with my banana consumption. I'd enjoy bananas.

However, if I ate a lot of bananas each week, let's say 80 🍌/week (that's 16 bananas a day, from Monday to Friday!), I would HATE bananas, regardless of how much I previously enjoyed them. With so many bananas a week, I'd probably suffer from malnutrition and related health problems.

End banana metaphor.

I don't think it's possible to be happy when working 80+ hours a week, even if it's something you used to enjoy. "The dose makes the poison."

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 13 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

That's because workaholics think they're normal and everyone else is lazy. In reality they usually either trying to hide from something in their personal life, or they really are just that boring of a person that they can't think of anything better to do than work.

This is not the same as being passionate, since that usually involves doing something for yourself rather than for another persons business.

I used to be a software developer and I enjoyed being a software developer, but I honestly couldn't give a crap about the proprietary accounting system or whatever it was that we were developing for the client. That stuff was hella boring

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 23 points 3 days ago

"We only hire slave labor here. You aren't nearly subservient enough for the honor."

[–] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 29 points 3 days ago

The guy can't even start his sentences with a capital letter. And you're supposed to take him serious as a CEO?

"Sorry I'm not even interested. You behave like a child, don't understand life and clearly treat your employees like shit."

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 50 points 4 days ago (1 children)

And how much equity are you providing for this role

[–] silasmariner@programming.dev 18 points 3 days ago

We haven't figured out the details yet but we're passionate about our business family and we're sure we'll have good news for you at ~~Christmas~~ ~~Easter~~ ~~The New Year~~ ~~The next AGM~~ hey wait why are you leaving what about those shares? We've nearly sorted out the details!

[–] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 168 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Sounds exploitative because it is. Just because work is your entire personality doesn’t mean every one else’s should be too. Fucking tool

[–] tburkhol@lemmy.world 49 points 4 days ago

Recently read "Pimp" by Iceberg Slim, and it seems like a training manual for (some) modern managers and executives. Use your recruiting process to select low-esteem, easily manipulated people to be your worker drones, and they will do 80 hour weeks to earn that pizza party.

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[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 107 points 4 days ago (37 children)

"I work 80 hrs for my own business and I expect everyone else to do so...on a regular salary"

[–] elbiter@lemmy.world 85 points 4 days ago (1 children)

CEOs think their time at restaurants count as working hours

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[–] Underwaterbob@sh.itjust.works 30 points 3 days ago (2 children)

"love the uncertainty"

Yeah, nothing like insecurity. Everyone fucking loves the shit outta that fucking shit! Gimme it all. I want nerve wracking, potential poverty around every corner. That's the ticket!

Seriously though, WTF is wrong with this person?

[–] Part4@infosec.pub 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

They believe the bullshit they have been fed.

I didn't read the entire message but I think the response is simple:

"That is all well and good, but come IPO time, it is you, not me, who is getting paid. Make this a co-operative or give every employee a reasonable percentage of the company, and we can all decide if your idea is worth the risk."

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[–] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 58 points 4 days ago (16 children)

I feel like anyone who says they love their work so much it doesn't feel like work just doesn't have an actual life that they like to live so work just beats out not working everytime.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 18 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I mean there is people who work for organizations like Doctors without Borders. Being deployed in a zone of natural disaster or war, they probably rack up 60+ hours a week easily. However their pay is much smaller than what they could get in the "market". Turns out people can love their job, if it does something meaningful, rather than make some rich people more rich.

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[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 34 points 3 days ago (2 children)

My husband is at the point of his career where he seeks out startups because he like passion projects. He's actually worked for several that have become huge multibillion dollar companies

The look on his face rn as i read this out to him is hilarious

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 20 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Founder/CEO/Designer - Micro...

Unless that ends in "soft" you're a failure and you're trying to bring everyone else down with you.

If it is "soft", you're a known pedophile and you should be in prison.

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[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Imagine being psychotic enough to brag about this.

[–] LadyButterfly@reddthat.com 14 points 3 days ago

"They are not glorious enough to work for my wonderful company and with my pure genius!"

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[–] Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 141 points 4 days ago (9 children)

Dude, you're pulling 80 hour weeks for your company. That you own. Expecting the same input from people who will never see as much as a percentage of what you stand to make off of their success is delusional. But I suppose delusion is almost a requirement for these kind of people.

[–] The_v@lemmy.world 76 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Personally theory.....

Many startups fail because people try to work 80+hrs per week. Biologically more than about 25-30 hours of work is usually a waste of time. You can occasionally pull a long week but then you need to rest and recover to get back to full productivity. If you push beyond it often, you'll make a shit ton of stupid mistakes that completely nullify all your efforts.

If you've ever been around someone "working" on hour 70+ during a week you'll know what I mean. A five minute tasks takes them an hour and they generally fuck it up.

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[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 76 points 4 days ago

If you work 80+h and it doesn't feel like work, then maybe playing golf and eating out doesn't magically turn into work just because you write it off as work expenses.

[–] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 92 points 4 days ago (4 children)

I'd only be willing to put in long hours for little pay at a startup if they agreed to give me shares in the company when I left.

[–] tacosanonymous@mander.xyz 46 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Yeah they talk about equity but were they offering it to this position?

Also, fuck that dude regardless.

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[–] Plurrbear@lemmy.world 33 points 4 days ago (9 children)

RUN!!!! To the closest golf course, that new CEO is probably there and just walk up to them and say “fuck you and “your company” I am out!” Then yell to the people around them to not give money to him… “he’s a grifter who is exploiting workers so he can play golf with you!”

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[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 53 points 4 days ago

It sounds exploitative because it is exploitative!

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 29 points 4 days ago

Seems like the worst of hustle culture to be honest.

[–] Zink@programming.dev 55 points 4 days ago

I mean, the douchebag CEO isn't exactly wrong.

I myself very much want a good work-life balance, therefore I do not apply for jobs to be one of the first ten people working for a CEO that thinks they're going to change the world.

He did a big favor for that candidate by not hitting him.

[–] mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de 28 points 4 days ago (1 children)

HATE. UNBRIDLED HATE. NO FATE IS TOO BAD FOR THIS SCUM. REEE

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[–] rozodru@lemmy.world 52 points 4 days ago (5 children)

looking at the douchebags profile he's also a, surprise surprise, massive advocate for AI with a recent post stating that gpt5 is a "massive change for humanity"

He has the usual tech bro posts with the usual bootlicker middle managers commenting support. Christ on a cracker I wish I could close my linkedin account.

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[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 34 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

"We will exploit you from the very beginning."

Props to that CEO for being open! I'm sure all the other people pressured to work long hours there are compensated as highly as him and there's no wage theft complaints with the Department Of Labor, right...?

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 59 points 4 days ago

Massive impact on the world. Lol. Says the guy who makes another SaaS bs solution.

[–] kerrigan778@lemmy.blahaj.zone 47 points 4 days ago (6 children)

Sad that they haven't found a life that they truly love...

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[–] Darkard@lemmy.world 65 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

"No no, you don't understand. You shouldn't have a family, you have to flog yourself to death for this startup company that's making a Gym Membership app. If you don't neglect your kids to vibe code a scheduling system then you just don't deserve a job and you and your family should just die"

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[–] fangwing@lemmy.zip 47 points 4 days ago

This is why it's important to be honest about your deal breakers from the employee perspective or at least subtly figure out their plan for employees at startups. I learned this the hard way recently by basically wasting 6 months at a startup, went well for a while, then 60-70+ hour work weeks, then my boss became overbearing.

They weren't honest from their side in the interview for most employees when they would ask about work life balance, the company always said it was great and well above average for the industry and startup environment.

[–] Lucky_777@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (4 children)

A simple "we are going a different direction" would have been enough. Fuck this CEO and cue* the Mario Bros theme!

*thanks, citizen Train.

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[–] TomMasz@piefed.social 43 points 4 days ago (1 children)

"If you're not willing to sacrifice your mental and physical health for me, get out of my sight."

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[–] m3t00@lemmy.world 30 points 4 days ago (6 children)
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[–] Shaggy1050@lemmy.world 27 points 4 days ago (1 children)

As someone who built up a business working 80+ hrs; fuck that guy. 5 years ago I was paying part timers$26/hr and my only full time (salary) - told him 30 hrs/week max. It was my risk/investment, not theirs. I didn't want them to get burned out. Happier employees perform better.

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[–] Amberskin@europe.pub 11 points 3 days ago

Tar and feathers… some ‘CEO’ make me to think about that old tradition.

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