this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2023
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As a Finn I say this is fine. Every military resource that is tied down and not raping and destroying Ukraine is net positive.

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[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 145 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (11 children)

Having to constantly communicate in abusive opposite-world ideas must be tiring. The notion that NATO is out to invade Russia or something is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard.

[–] naught@sh.itjust.works 108 points 11 months ago (1 children)

For real... like Mr. Putin sir, we don't want Russia. In fact, I must insist that you keep it

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[–] jlh@lemmy.jlh.name 29 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I've heard arguments from sarcasmitron on YouTube that Putin actually believes his own lies. Putin is terrified that the CIA actually caused color revolutions in the 2000's and 2010's, and after the pro-constitution/anti-election-fraud protests in Russia in 2011, he's been fighting against "the shadowy hand of the gay nazi west" ever since.

[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 36 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Seems like it would happen naturally after a while. He speaks basically exactly like US Republicans and I think a lot of them actually believe their insane BS.

[–] zcd@lemmy.ca 25 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not surprising that he literally works Republicans like sock puppets

[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

He tells them what to say where it concerns Russia, but they naturally have the same sort of lying, victim blaming, playing a victim and opposite-world tendencies.

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[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You have to be worth something to be invaded.

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[–] MisterNeon@lemmy.world 141 points 11 months ago (5 children)

As an American I'm waiting for Republicans to start randomly saying anti-Finnish opinions. My bet is in about a week.

[–] mumblerfish@lemmy.world 49 points 11 months ago (3 children)

"The Finns, they, uh... who are they again? Woke, communists, like always?"

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago

It will take a while, you can't expect christ-- sorry Republicans to know the basic geography of a place that was one of the most discussed areas in terms of Cold War policy for decades.

Fox news sometime in a month will have some blonde or angry Irish background guy looking like a confused dog saying how the PM there went to a party.

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[–] Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works 77 points 11 months ago (3 children)

>Be Putin
>Announce NATO expansion is no threat
>Pull most troops from the Finnish border, because holy fuck, Ukraine has turned the entire army you had at the start into sunflower fertalizer
>Have all the units you pulled from the Finnish border incur astronomical losses, because you want to present any win at the next election
>Declare Finland a threat again
>Move the broken units back up to the border
>Profit

[–] 768@sh.itjust.works 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Is Putin really that weak domestically to care about elections?

[–] Crowfiend@lemmy.world 48 points 11 months ago (3 children)

His greatest political opponent just "went missing" (from the prison he was being held in) and "nobody knows where he is now." Russians have been watching their population get ground into meat by what he originally called "a military exercise" that's been going on over six times the time estimate that he set, and he's actively making it so nobody can leave Russia without smuggling themselves out.

He wouldn't still hold office if he was playing fairly, so yes, he is that weak domestically. Get fucked, Vladolf Putler.

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago

Don’t forget the oligarchs can no longer live the lives they did. Obviously they are complicit with the war but that doesn’t change the fact that there are those that would turn against him if the right opportunity presented itself

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[–] cabron_offsets@lemmy.world 73 points 11 months ago (5 children)
[–] ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The ones where Moscow political class sons do their military service. Where the only danger they face is getting buggered by their own Sargent's.

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[–] WorldieBoi@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)
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[–] Skkorm@lemmy.world 57 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Have fun with that. This isn't WW2. The Finnish military is far from large, but they are a specialized group with with a lot of national pride, and Russia currently has a hesitant conscript force with no emotional tie to the cause.

[–] YoorWeb@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

Finland was first created some time during the Cold War between Russia and the West.

Japan-Soviet relations had always been shaky at best, but also incredibly secretive. Even as early as 1925 Japan and the Soviet Union had secret deals with each other regarding fishing rights between the two countries, with the Soviet Union giving up much of it's fishing rights to Japan with seemingly no explanation as to why.

These secretive treaties and alliances continued right up until just before the fall of the Soviet Union, Gorbachev made trips to Japan months before the fall of the Soviet Union stating the entire time how the relations between them were improving, even when Soviet relations with the rest of the world were worsening.

In fact the entire past 100 years of Japanese-Russian relations bring up many unanswered questioned.

Why at the height of WW2, were the battles between these two countries minimal despite being on opposing sides?

Why did Japan sign a peace treaty with Russia in 1941, just months before their allies, Germany, went to war with Russia?

Why were relations between Japan and Russia always good throughout the Cold War, despite the major geopolitical differences between the countries, and close geographical positions that you think would cause tensions?

The answer is simple, they shared a common secret. A common asset that worked in both of their favours. And that asset was Finland.

It's unclear when Finland was first thought up, some say it was during the Cold War, and others say it was as far back as the 1920's, but the necessity of Finland is quite simple.

Japan can fish in the region of ocean between Sweden and Russia without worry for environmental repercussions, after all, nobody's going to expect fishing regulations to be broken in a place where everyone thinks there's a landmass will they? And in return Russia get a percentage of the fish to distribute amongst their populace.

It's a simple case of fishing the Finnish Sea, transporting it across Russia, (that was the real reason for the construction of the Trans-Siberian railway by the way), and then shipping it from the Eastern Russian coast to Japan under the disguise of 'Nokia' products.

This is why Nokia is the largest 'Finnish' company, and it is also why Japan is the largest importer of Nokia products, despite the fact that very few people own Nokia phones in the country.

There are clearly some unanswered questions to this conspiracy that I'll try and address below.

1- What about Finnish people? Are they all in on the conspiracy?

A. No. People from Finland genuinely believe they're from Finland. In reality they are from small towns on either the Eastern part of Sweden, the Western part of Russia, or the Northern part of Estonia.

2- What about all of Finland's other exports other than Nokia?

A. Finland's three biggest, and three most well known areas of industry are Oil, Tech, and Software. The oil is gathered in offshore platforms where the rest of us believe the landmass of Finland is, (again the Japanese get to avoid rigging regulations in this respect), the Tech companies have already been explained above with the Nokia post, and Software companies can easily redirect their IP Address through the Finnish sea. As for other Finnish exports, well, claiming Santa comes from your country isn't a viable way to get people to believe in it.

3- What about Helsinki? That is an enormous city on the world stage.

A. Helsinki is located in Eastern Sweden. It's not like the people flying there would notice.

4- What about everywhere else in Finland? There's a lot to it and it couldn't all be made up.

A. 99% of Finland is forest. A lot of it doesn't need to be accounted for when addressing Finnish geography.

5- Why do other countries go along with it?

A. At first it was a sign of goodwill between Western Countries and the Soviet Union. A bargaining chip that could be played. But Finland has since evolved to something much more. An idealistic placeholder for what countries should aspire to. No real country could so consistently place first in Education, Healthcare, Gender Equality, Literacy Rates, National Stability, The least corrupt government in the world, Freedom of the press. It's a concept for countries and people to aspire to. But that's where the problems about Finland's existence is disputed. no country in the world can possibly be that good.

6- Why the name Finland?

A. The country was originally made for fishing. What do fish have? Fins. Thus Finland.

7- What about the Finnish language?

A. Look up the similarities between Japanese and Finnish. It may surprise you how similar they are. Which is weird considering the vast distances between them.

8- I'm Finnish and your attack on my people and culture is insulting.

A. I'm not insulting Finnish people or culture. I don't even deny that there is Finnish culture. When you have a collective of a few million people identifying as Finnish then of course a culture will be built around it. I'm simply saying that that the landmass of Finland isn't actually there. It doesn't mean there can't be a culture or identity of being Finnish however.

9- This is an enormous conspiracy to keep secret, how could nobody else of realized it?

A. Other people have realized it. But imagine the ridiculousness of the statement 'I don't believe Finland exists'. Even if we did have undeniable proof of something put in front of us we would still hold the opinion that most of our friends, family, and acquaintances hold to not disrupt social convention. It's part of the human condition.

10- What about GPS and Satellite Images?

A. It's manipulated and forged. In the parts of Estonia, Sweden, and Russia that are allocated as 'Finnish zones' the GPS locations are changed to match that of Finland. Satellite images are forged. This is how that part of the world really looks.

[–] DanglingFury@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This is the dumbest shit I've read this week, yet i got a good kick out of it regardless

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[–] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 49 points 11 months ago (10 children)

Finland is NATO. He'll NEVER invade Finland. Have fun dividing up your oh so great, properly trained and well equipped army haha! Not like he'll need the troops in Ukraine, that war is going as smooth AF.

[–] ghen@sh.itjust.works 15 points 11 months ago (6 children)

I feel like he's doing this just to threaten the troops on the front line with somewhere colder

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[–] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 48 points 11 months ago (14 children)

My perspective on war is so corrupted, at this point.

At one hand I want peace in Europe but on the other Hand I know Russia won't stop until they are beaten so getting NATO involved might end this conflict faster.

[–] doctorcrimson 29 points 11 months ago (10 children)

I've wanted to fight Russia since they annexed Crimea. I knew it wouldn't end there, and I was proven right. If they manage to obtain the natural resources of Ukraine then it will just keep escalating. The thing is, though, Russia has lost so many troops that they could easily be swept, right now. Now has never been a better time for either the EU or NATO to force Russia into demilitarization and reparations, as well as putting more economic pressure on the Chinese Dictatorship.

One thing I don't want, though, is a direct conflict with China. Those fuckers need to try fixing their own shit, first. Idk if that makes me strong against the weak and weak against the strong, but there is simply too much to lose for all sides in that sort of conflict, unlike the very weakened and destabilized Russia.

[–] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 21 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I just feel hopeless tbh. It feels like diplomacy failed or was the wrong tool to begin with. You can't argue with someone when their point is, "I want your land and you dead." Every Compromise seems to be a loss at this situation. War is never good. But is not going to War even worse? I just don't know anymore.

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[–] cuntonabike@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago (9 children)

I've wanted to fight Russia since they annexed Crimea.

I’m sure you’ll be the first to volunteer for the front lines then.

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[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It's really disappointing, isn't it? Putin has been given every opportunity to stop the invasion or not even start it in the first place, and in ways that would help him save face. He's rejected all of that and insists on only violence. The only response to that is returning the violence. Defending Ukraine is the most unquestionably morally correct military action I've seen in my life.

It also brings up an interesting observation -- to have a peaceful society, you have to be willing to violently defend it. If another party insists you give into their demands or they'll get violent, you have to eventually oppose them. Otherwise, if you constantly submit to them in the name of peace, they'll eventually take away your peace. Just like a tolerant society must reject intolerant views, a peaceful society must be willing to defend themselves in war.

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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 15 points 11 months ago

If it weren't for the existence of Russia's massive fleet of nuclear weapons (which probably don't actually work but it's a hell of a risk) i'm sure NATO would have already got involved.

The only reasonable way I can see this war ending is if the internal politics of Russia decide Putin is now too much of a problem and deal with him themselves. Then whoever takes charge backs out of Ukraine because it's not a winnable conflict.

I can't see how anyone external can bring about an end to the conflict without risking massive escalation.

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[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 48 points 11 months ago (1 children)

According to the Russian president, Finland was “dragged” into Nato.

And who did the dragging Vlady?

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[–] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 47 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Oh you're gonna move your last three tanks there? Good luck with that venture lmao

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 19 points 11 months ago

They can make a big show of parking the T14s and Su-57s there knowing they won't have to be put to use and no one will find out how shit they are.

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[–] KISSmyOS@lemmy.world 38 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)
[–] Bonehead@kbin.social 27 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Moving to open a second front. In the winter. At the home of the White Death. Surely nothing can possibly go wrong with this plan.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 21 points 11 months ago (12 children)

Russia will absolutely not invade Finland, even if it weren't part of NATO and the EU.

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[–] carghai@lemmy.world 25 points 11 months ago

What military? Drunk old men?

[–] theodewere@kbin.social 24 points 11 months ago

it's just a sneaky little recruitment campaign.. sign up now boys, we're forming a nice leisurely unit to sit and watch the Finns do nothing.. don't worry, we won't accidentally send you to die like worms in a ditch in Ukraine..

[–] cheeseburger@lemmy.ca 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So the plan working as intended. Spread'em thin, Ivan.

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[–] robocall@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago

There's too much mud and rain in Ukraine right now, so they need an excuse to pull back

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

Forget article 5, if Russia thinks that Ukrainians are tough mothers, they (literally) won't know what hit them in Finland.

Thick, dense forests with millions of trees. Moutainous regions. Snow forever. Lots of places a sniper pair could hide.

[–] AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

Wake up, Simo Hayha. Finland needs its protector once more.

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[–] CADmonkey@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

Did they forget that Finland created Simo Heyha?

[–] Furbag@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

Let me guess, another "training exercise"?

[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I was worried about this ever since Putin said "we have no plans of the sort" when Biden said Putin would invade a NATO country after Ukraine.

Lo and behold, troop build up on a border of a NATO country, which completely parallels the start of the Ukraine invasion.

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