this post was submitted on 09 Jan 2024
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I’m the chimney sweep now!

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[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 96 points 10 months ago (2 children)
[–] fakeman_pretendname@feddit.uk 21 points 10 months ago

That's a great bit of research. What an awesome website.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

Interesting and informative site. Thanks

[–] Gigan@lemmy.world 55 points 10 months ago (8 children)

But we already got rid of child chimney sweepers without getting rid of capitalism

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 64 points 10 months ago (18 children)

The point is that capitalism prioritizes profit, not the welfare of people. This is only not done anymore because of regulation, not because capitalism was fixed. It can't be fixed. The target goal of capitalism is wrong. Profit does not optimize for innovation, welfare, happiness, or anything else that could be called good. It will always exploit people as much as it can, and it just happens to not exploit children (in the western world (legally)) because we made it not allowed, and disobeying that law would be less profitable.

[–] theKalash@feddit.ch 7 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Seems like regulations are the fix.

[–] miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml 16 points 10 months ago

Capitalism is unsustainable by design, there is no fix to that

[–] porcariasagrada@slrpnk.net 9 points 10 months ago (6 children)

shouldn't we come up with a system where the core values don't need regulation. it becomes unthinkable to exploit children not because of regulation and enforcement but because the system in itself denies power to exploiters.

[–] Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (13 children)

Is there any system besides capitalism with regulations we have in developed countries without child labor? Child labor existed in the Soviet Union and in communist China. Historically the idea that children should not perform labor is very recent.

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[–] CryptidBestiary@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Don't worry give some states a couple of years and I'm sure we'll see child chimney sweepers come back 😉

[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago

Businesses in the Midwest US have already been hiring 10-12 year old undocumented kids to work overnight cleaning machine parts at meatpacking plants. I mean… so many different things wrong with that. The psycho fuckers who run these businesses need some real penalties, like jail time and dissolving their company.

[–] WorkIsSlow@lemmy.world 22 points 10 months ago (2 children)

We just got rid of chimney sweeps in general.

Despite us regulating child labor it seems like profit motives and greed overpower regulatory measures.

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/26/1157368469/child-labor-violations-increase-states-loosen-rules

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 22 points 10 months ago

Through labor organization. It wasn't out of the goodness of the hearts of benevolent Capitalists, but through struggles of Workers. The point of this picture isn't that Capitalism used to be worse, and fixed itself, but that Capitalists will absolutely take advantage of children and subject them to sacrificing their bodies for clean chimneys if it makes a profit.

The takeaway from this is that Capitalists cannot be seen as individual humans with values, but as cogs in the Capitalist machine that will exploit everything and everyone for profit. An individual Capitalist may not be willing to go that far, but inevitably as long as there is profit to be made, someone will fill that gap.

That's why economic systems need to be looked at at aggregates and not as individual transactions. You miss the forest for the trees.

[–] OrganicMustard@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago

Now we only have child miners, child slaughter house workers, child assembly line workers, child scrapyard garbage collectors, ...

[–] porcariasagrada@slrpnk.net 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

we just moved child labour to less developed countries. we didn't get rid of anything. you just don't see it, but child labour is still going strong in the world. child slavery as well.

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (22 children)

No WE did not. The people in those countries where it still happens allowed it to still happen.

None of us have any decisionmaking power to control what those countries do, so the burden to fix those problems is on those countries who allow it.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago (15 children)

It's 100% a consequence of Capitalism, though. You're blaming developing nations for the willful exploitation international Corporations commit and you personally benefit from.

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[–] stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Ah yes and there is no other child labour anywhere in the world at all anymore

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[–] havokdj@lemmy.world 31 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Alright, let's not pretend that today is somehow just as bad or worse than this when it comes to developed countries, but we still need to make changes.

[–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 38 points 10 months ago (2 children)

What's bad is that even with the preponderance of historical evidence, there are still people who would absolutely return to these practices if the government let them. In many cases they do it anyway.

[–] blanketswithsmallpox@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago

Child immigrants have been dying in meat plants left and right lol.

While they aren't as young as this stunted 10 year old, there are absolutely kids crawling through little spaces for family business or shoveling cow shit all over.

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We're already doing it in the US. Republicans are pushing to repeal child labor laws. At the same time, multiple meat suppliers have been found using migrant children (as young as 11 IIRC) in dangerous jobs in their factories. This is at the same time that the greedy fucks are hiking prices on your groceries.

[–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 8 points 10 months ago

And those are just the known, publicized cases.

[–] Randomunemployment@lemmings.world 16 points 10 months ago (7 children)

This brings up one of the questions I have in regards to capitalism criticism. I understand that child labor is bad I would prefer labor be done safely and with respect. In a capitalist society undereducated and vulnerable people get the short end and often do these jobs. In a communist system dangerous and dirty work still needs to be done. How would labor be allotted that would cause a more egalitarian outcome. Personal example of my family were migrant farm workers. Uncle fucking hated doing field work he saved capital, went to community college, got a good paying job, is now paying my cousins way through cal poly. If the system is set up so that work is done by those who can then realistically he could still be a field hand and my cousin would probably follow him. How does a non capitalist system deter formation and unintentional enforcement of caste systems.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago

Leftist organization, regardless of Tendency, proposes numerous solutions. Lower working times for dirty jobs, focusing on automating undesirable jobs as quickly as possible, and rotating who does those jobs are all proposed solutions.

I suggest reading leftist theory.

[–] Urist@lemmy.ml 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

The left is primarily not concerned with the wealth disparity caused by different wages between jobs. What drives inequality, which makes our society less democratic and just, is the private ownership of capital (meaning means of production in this context). It would be totally fair in a socialist society to add bonuses for harder or more dangerous work. What is not compatible is private ownership, not personal ownership of stuff.

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[–] WashedOver@lemmy.ca 7 points 10 months ago

Some might be wondering what the issue is since he probably grew this one from a little thing.

[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So not unlike the chocolate industry today, to just mention one.

And yes, it's predominantly owned/funded by western corporations.

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