this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2024
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I'm begging you to learn how to use this term. (lemmy.world)
submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by pjwestin@lemmy.world to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
41 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Tankie's original use was for British communists who supported Soviet military expansion. In the modern sense, it is used to describe communists who are authoritarian-apologists. For example, a communist who romanticizes the Soviet Union or makes excuses for the Uyghur genocide is a tankie. I've also seen it stretched to include militant anti-capitalists, or more commonly, "militant," anti-capitalists who call for violent resistance to capitalism from the safety of a keyboard.

Democratic-Socialists are not tankies. Socialists are not tankies. I don't even think most communists qualify as tankies. Criticizing Democrats does not make you a tankie. Condemning Israel's human rights violations does not make you a tankie. Voting third party doesn't make you a tankie. I see this term used here every day, but never correctly.

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[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 65 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

[reads post] Yep, I'm using it right.

What do all serious auths have in common? The plan to use mass murder, at some point or another, as a means to an end. Unironically, my favorite thing about Tankies is how they'll go from "communists aren't violent murderers actually" to "you'll get the bullet, too" in the span of two posts.

To clarify my position, I'm more closely aligned with anarcho-communists than any other serious political movement. I just think authoritarians of all stripes suck.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 4 points 7 months ago

The plan to use mass murder, at some point or another, as a means to an end.

But there is something that separates a communist from a tankie. It isn't the willingness to use violence, but their willingness to do so against their beliefs if it benefits "the communist side" even though it is an oppressive act.

Supporting violent resistance in Gaza doesn't make someone a tankie, but supporting Russia's invasion of Ukraine does.

[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 50 points 7 months ago

I've not used it for anyone who wasn't an authoritarian apologist, or who I meant to accuse of being an authoritarian apologist.

[–] zakobjoa@lemmy.world 26 points 7 months ago

That's exactly what a tankie would say!

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 23 points 7 months ago

True, however equally true

[–] gastationsushi@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I got called a tankie for complaining about the lack of regulations when that lead tainted applesauce story came out.

Calling someone a tankie is just scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's all they have.

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I got called a fascist for saying I’m voting for Biden.

[–] gastationsushi@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Looked through your comment history. Are you talking about the person that replied "enjoy fascism"?

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 2 points 7 months ago

There’s that, and another account I have that was on .ml (I hadn’t known what that instance was about when I created the account) was called a fascist for saying their memes were childish, and for voting for Biden.

I don’t use that anymore for obvious reasons.

[–] Muyal@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

You got called a fascist becasue you wrote:

"12 percent of Bernie’s supporters stayed home in 2020."

and

"Why would I lecture anyone fucking over leftists? Fuck socialism."

Which is are pretty much rightist talking points.

Edit: You also said that leftists and POC need to be "put in their place" whatever that means, so I'm not surprised you got called that.

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 3 points 7 months ago

ROFL! This is exactly what I’m talking about. Sensationalism, taking shit out of context, and manufactured outrage.

I never once said a single word about POC. That was some dumbass kid that created that out of nothing because I said it’s good to see socialists of lemmy being put in their place.

Secondly, everything I said was truthful. There’s nothing fascists about factual numbers. You kids label anything that disagrees with your bullshit as fascist and then walk away as if rice won the argument.

Grow the fuck ip .

Blocking you along with all the other children who have no idea what they’re talking about.

[–] GilgameshCatBeard@lemmy.ca 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Not a thing about what they said is even remotely fascist. Being “put in one’s place” is an older term for what you’d know as being “called out.” In other words, they’re glad the socialists of lemmy are finally being called out for their ridiculous rhetoric.

Lasty, even if they did say shit about POC, that would be RACIST, not FASCIST.

Considering that you yourself claimed to not even know what it means, you probably shouldn’t be judging others for what they say until you learn what what they’re saying means.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 18 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Well this is gonna tee up a measured and rational discussion.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Look man, 90% of this community is liberals and leftists picking fights with each other. If I can at least get them to start using the right words when the do it, I'll call it a win.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

And you think this post is gonna produce that outcome, do you 🙂

(Look man, I'm kind of just messing with you. I can sympathize with your mission. But I do think the reality is that language changes over time and in the present day, tankie means "authoritarian pro-Russia pro-China leftist" and there's not much you or I can do about it. I also think that trying to buck the even-more-overarching problem of the whole community being full of "YOU'RE NOT TELLING ME WHAT'S WHAT I'M TELLING YOU WHAT'S WHAT" mindset means that anything you're trying to tell people about how to use their language is doomed to failure unless what you're saying already matches with what they've decided is God's truth.)

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, to be clear, I'm not saying that tankie should only be used for British communists that supported sending tanks into Hungary. I think the definition you just gave is the correct modern usage, that's why I included it in the post, and even though I think using it to mean, "communists who are violently anti-capitalist but only online and never IRL," is a stretch, I'm not gonna correct anyone saying it. But go ahead and look at the biggest/most controversial posts of the last week, CTRL-F, "tankie," and see what you get. I'm willing to bet its someone getting called a tankie for criticizing Biden or the Democrats, not defending authoritarian-communist regimes.

I'm sure the biggest offenders will keep misusing the word, but I'm hoping at least some people will see this post and go, "Oh, damn, I've been using that word wrong. Oops." Then they'll probably downvote me anyway, but hopefully they'll stop misusing the word, if for no other reason than the fear of looking dumb.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I think it's fairly likely that a lot of anti-leftist people online just happened to learn the word this year, and they're excited to use it.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

Yeah, that tracks, I've seen it get used a lot more in the last six months to a year. Some boomer must have used in in their Facebook group.

[–] magnetosphere@kbin.social 10 points 7 months ago

In the modern sense, it is used to describe communists who are authoritarian-apologists.

When I first wondered “wtf is a ‘tankie’?” I was lucky enough to find a source that defined the term in a similar way. Still, I appreciate the verification, and you’re right - it’s often used incorrectly.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Tankie: a Leftist that may self-identify as a Communist, or erroneously, a Socialist. Typified by their usage of a Hammer and Sickle or Joseph Stalin as their profile picture, these poor souls believe that the only way to achieve a Proletarian Revolution is to centralize power and control the flow of information similar to Stalin's Russia or modern day China. This includes the threat or actual use of violence on their own citizens in order to maintain their version of the status quo. The ownership of the means of production will be nationalized. 3rd party government oversight would not have even been thought of. Basically fascists but with a red coat of paint.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

I mean, that's the right ballpark...I'd probably shorten it to, "A communist or far-left activist that defends or supports authoritarian regimes that align with their political ideology," but that's just me.

[–] alliswell33@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

"erroneously a socialist" oh come on. All communists are socialist but not all socialist are communist. You can't just change definitions of words because you are a left-anticommunist. I don't even know what to say besides read a book.

[–] cristo@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago

Did you read the self identify part?

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I was called a tankie 2 days ago. I'm an anarchist who occasionally is known to get gets into flame wars with the tankies...

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

Tankie is such a specific term that I've only ever seen used in leftist circles until recently. At first it was kinda funny to watch normie liberals mistake it for a, "Bernie Bro," synonym, but lately it's just getting annoying.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

I'm sorry sir have you considered going back to China and/or Russia?

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

Fat chance. Liberals' understanding of a term only extends to how useful it is to their political agenda (maintaining the status quo).

It's the same reason they mindlessly equate the term "radical" with extremism (usually the right-wing kind).

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

There is a simple rule to seperate tankies from the left;

if they call for nuking an entire hemisphere of the planet or openly call for genocide, that's a tankie.

[–] alliswell33@lemmy.sdf.org -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Tankie has become a thought terminating cliche. Just call someone a tankie and any debate is over. You are correct and you can ignore any opinion that doesn't align with your own.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 7 months ago

No need to debate strangers online. Nobody debates in good faith and nobody is listening.

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca -4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Words change meaning over time. This is how language works. What it used to mean isn’t what it means now.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, that's why I outlined how this term went from describing British communists who supported the Soviet's use of tanks during the Hungarian Revolution to generally pro-authoritarian communists to communists who call for violent resistance to capitalism (especially online). There's a difference between a word's meaning shifting over time and someone misusing or misunderstanding a word so badly they've lost its meaning.

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Again, the definition of the word changed. It’s how these things work. Now, it seems to pretty much describe trendy socialists that pick a hot button single issue to be upset about- troll the internet with noses about it, and pretend they actually could have point on a map to where said events are happening six months ago.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

Yeah, I don't think most people in this community would agree with the definition you just laid out, and as I said, this community is already misusing the word. What you're describing is closer to the, "dirtbag left," than anything else. You're stretching the definition so far past, "pro-authoritarian-left," that it's ridiculous. It would be like if I started calling Biden supporters, "Bernie Bros," and said the definition had shifted to include any supporter of a left-of-center male candidate. It's so incorrect it's made the word meaningless.

[–] urist@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I'm what most people would describe as left, and authoritarianism is the antithesis of what I believe in.

Calling every leftist a tankie removes nuance to political discourse and groups people together who don’t believe the same things, whose views are sometimes totally opposed.

It’s worth pushing back on how the meaning of this word is changing. OP is not arguing it should only apply to British communists, only that it should not be used as a cudgel against every leftie.

edit: spelling

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

Right. So as an example, "Tankie" currently means "anyone not overjoyed at Biden's support for genocide."