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Biology OP (mander.xyz)
submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by fossilesque@mander.xyz to c/science_memes@mander.xyz
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[-] hydroptic@sopuli.xyz 78 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

And mathematicians divide by multiplying!

In formal definitions of arithmetics, division can be defined via multiplication: as a simplified example with real numbers, because a ÷ 2 is the same as a × 0.5, this means that if your axioms support multiplication you'll get division out of them for free (and this'll work for integers too, the definition is just a bit more involved.)

Mathematicians also subtract by adding, with the same logic as with division.

[-] bort@feddit.de 14 points 4 months ago

if your axioms support multiplication you’ll get division out of them for free

this is true... except when it isn't.

In mathematics, rings are algebraic structures that generalize fields: multiplication need not be commutative and multiplicative inverses need not exist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_(mathematics)

[-] hydroptic@sopuli.xyz 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yeah I should maybe just have written

if your axioms support multiplication you’ll get division out of them for free^*^

^*^certain terms and conditions may apply. Limited availability in some structures, North Korea, and Iran. Known to the state of California to cause cancer or reproductive toxicity

[-] meowMix2525@lemm.ee 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Right. The cells are dividing in half, which would be represented in math form by 1/0.5 = 2. Dividing by one half is the same thing as multiplying by 2, and division in general is really just a visually simplified way to multiply by a fraction of 1.

Any time you divide by some fraction of 1, you will necessarily end up with a larger number because you're doubling that division which reverses it back into multiplication, much in the same way as a negative x negative = positive. If that makes sense.

A mathematician would not be bothered by this. A high schooler taking algebra I might be though, if you phrased it the same way this post did.

[-] kogasa@programming.dev 7 points 4 months ago

a/b is the unique solution x to a = bx, if a solution exists. This definition is used for integers, rationals, real and complex numbers.

Defining a/b as a * (1/b) makes sense if you're learning arithmetic, but logically it's more contrived as you then need to define 1/b as the unique solution x to bx = 1, if one exists, which is essentially the first definition.

[-] Artyom@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago

That's me, a degree-holding full time computer scientist, just learning arithmetic I guess.

Bonus question: what even is subtraction? I'm 99% sure it doesn't exist since I've never used it, I only ever use addition.

[-] kogasa@programming.dev 3 points 4 months ago

Addition by the additive inverse.

[-] Artyom@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago

Now you just replaced one incalculable thing with a different incalculable thing.

[-] kogasa@programming.dev 1 points 4 months ago

Eh?

[-] Artyom@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

Computers don't subtract, and you can't just add a negative, a computer can't interpret a negative number, it can only store a flag that the number is negative. You need to use a couple addition tricks to subtract to numbers to ensure that the computer only has to add. It's addition all the way down.

[-] kogasa@programming.dev 1 points 4 months ago

What does this have to do with computers?

[-] hydroptic@sopuli.xyz 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

what even is subtraction?

It's just addition wearing a trench coat, fake beard and glasses

[-] hydroptic@sopuli.xyz 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Defining a/b as a * (1/b) makes sense if you’re learning arithmetic

The example was just to illustrate the idea not to define division exactly like that

[-] platypus_plumba@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Cells: 🫣🫨😢

[-] ProtoShark@lemm.ee 37 points 4 months ago

1 ÷ 0.5

[-] sorhead@lemmy.world 31 points 4 months ago

It's simple, cells are fractions.

[-] fidodo@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

But it's turning 1 into 1/2+1/2 which is different than dividing by 2.

[-] sorhead@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

No, it's dividing 1 by 1/2 leading to 2.

[-] fidodo@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

The correct answer

[-] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 24 points 4 months ago

A fundamental disregard for sets and their importance in higher mathematics.

[-] fossilesque@mander.xyz 47 points 4 months ago

cry harder, number boy.

[-] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 17 points 4 months ago

Damn, owned

[-] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml -2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

This could just as easily had been a reply with:

🤓

[-] hglman@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

Really is.

[-] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Computers multiply by adding, subtract by adding, i'm not sure how division goes but i'm sure that's addition too.

[-] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 8 points 4 months ago

Looked into it. It literally is.

[-] SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago

But....how?

[-] icydefiance@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The other replies are simplifying too much. Just adding or subtracting in a loop would be far too slow.

A multiplier will find the partial products by using AND gates, and then sum them, which is very similar to long multiplication as they teach you in school. This article explains it pretty well.

Division is more complicated. It's sort of done like long division, but apparently that is slow and there's some magic with two's complements that can make it faster. Honestly I don't fully understand it yet.

[-] SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago

That article was really good. I feel like if someone explained it to me at a pub or party I could somewhat talk about it without sounding like a total ludite.

[-] Johanno@feddit.de 4 points 4 months ago

Once you go down to logic gates. A XOR gate for example makes 1+1 = 0

[-] Xavienth@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 4 months ago

Subtract divisor from dividend until you hit zero. Number of subtractions is the quotient. Don't ask about non-whole numbers.

[-] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago

The remainder is the amount of overflow when you go below zero.

[-] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It recursively subtracts until the number goes at or below zero. The iterations is the output and the reminder is how much it went below zero.

[-] Cap@kbin.social 10 points 4 months ago

Clever and I get the joke and it made me smile. If I recall my biology from 20 years ago I think the cell makes duplicates of its chromosomes then splits apart. So you have two cells inside one membrane that separates, 2 / 1 = 2. The way I first thought about it was one cell splitting in half, so half goes to one cell, the other half with the other, 1 / .5 = 2.

In short, I think the math works out fine, but the language you use to describe it can lead to comedy gold. You could say cells reproduce by division? I don't know, I'm not a biologist or mathematician. I'm a toilet poster.

[-] faintwhenfree@lemmus.org 8 points 4 months ago

No comments about Amitabh Bachchan's use for meme. Well it should have been a long time coming, I'm glad that it's now here.

[-] Rascabin@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago

Bollywood itself is a meme 🤭. Just watch their version of The Matrix. Dude starts singing with "Trinity", like wtf!??

[-] faintwhenfree@lemmus.org 2 points 4 months ago

Lol it gets wtf long before he starts dancing with trinity.

[-] OpenStars@startrek.website 5 points 4 months ago

That's the problem whenever math meets physics: the former wins in the theory, but in the real world physics always triumphs:-).

[-] hglman@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_a_set?wprov=sfla1

The sets in [partition] P are called the blocks, parts, or cells, of the partition.

The number of cells in partition is >= 1.

[-] user1234@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 4 months ago

Engineers: Pass the ketchup!

this post was submitted on 25 Feb 2024
721 points (96.3% liked)

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