532
Democrats worry their most loyal voters won’t turn out for Biden in 2024
(www.washingtonpost.com)
this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2023
532 points (95.7% liked)
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They are tired of being promised 40 acres and only given lip service. The DNC uses minorities as political pawns to be used and tossed aside the day after election and minority communities have caught on. Hopefully they will turn out in huge numbers to support Cornel West. Someone that offers the same rhetoric and policy Bernie did without being a party sheepdog.
Cornell West, who's campaign is being run by Jill "lunch with Putin" Stein. I thought more of West than to be an obvious Republican plant. I don't even care what I think about Biden, he is the incumbent president and will be the candidate. I'll vote for him in a second because the alternative is literally the likely destruction of the United States as we know it.
This isn't hard. The US is a two party system right now. I don't understand why people think a third party is ever a good idea right now. Maybe third parties should run in local elections instead of this dumb spoiler candidate for the president vs
The thing is that there's never a "good time" to vote third party because we're locked in to a forever crisis. And if you think the democrats will fix it, I think that you're mistaken. IMO, the democrats haven't been serious about fixing stuff basically since Johnson. Carter had a lot of good ideas, but his legacy as president is basically "that guy where gas prices started going up"; Clinton did address some problems (like the deficit), which got the republicans big mad, but failed to address a bunch of other serious issues that would have been much less painful to solve in the 90s; Obama's basically the same way, only two wars kept him from even dreaming of a balanced budget. The democrats basically just stop making things actively worse for a little bit. Sometimes I wonder if this is what it was like to live through the demise of the Roman republic; Caesar is coming, our democracy is floundering and ineffectual, and the best that we've got is to shrug and vote for "not a Nazi". Don't get me wrong: never, ever vote for the Nazi, but come on, we have got to do better than that or things or going to keep getting a lot worse.
Nice liberal bullshit neocon talking points you have there. We have a 2 party system because liberals allow it. They are so comfortable with the oppressive status quo and are terrified of the idea of being inconvenienced by the progress of others. There was a reason MLK warned society about liberals. They are the sole reason nothing meaningful for the general public ever gets done.
We won't be voting for your shitty CEO owned warhawk candidate, so if Dems lose the WH this was the work of Dem voters.
No, we have a 2-party system because of Duverger's Law, and liberals are the ones advocating for ranked choice voting, which fixes the situation and allows for more diversity of viable candidates.
The Democratic Party is absolutely NOT advocating for ranked choice voting, and explicitly oppose things like abolishing the electoral college
You are conflating liberal voters with the DNC, the DNC is perfectly ok with elections and voting as they are.
The DNC is fucked and run by idiots, no argument. But voting as though you're NOT running a FPtP election when you are actually running a FPtP election is so stupid there are no words in the English language profane enough to describe it.
The system works one way. You play the game, or you get played by the game. Voting third party for president or Senate is not how the game is played, like it or not.
You want change? Vote in your local elections. That's where change starts. Do it enough, and get enough other people to do the same, and THEN you can change things up-ticket.
Play the game. Don't get played. Don't waste your vote. The other option these days is literally a fascist.
I'm living in reality, however unpleasant that may be. No "left" third party candidate will do anything but get Trump another term. I want better things for this country, but the way to get them isn't to help elect a fascist hopeful dictator. Change needs to start at the bottom, you seem really motivated, you should go run for City council and start making the change you want to see. Right now your answer to not liking one candidate is to choose the one that probably would love to put you in a reeducation camp.
We literally have over a year until the Election and Cornel West Doesn't have to go through all the hoops Sanders did by running in the Primaries.
It is unlikely, but it's not impossible that West could win. Because with 3 or more candidates in the race, a winner could get by with 30%, and once West starts polling in the double digits and the possibility he could win becomes more realistic, many disaffected democrats and some republicans will switch Sides.
I've never seen a 3rd party candidate get so much momentum this early on, and I've never seen an ecombant party freak out so much about 'spoilers' on an off year. I think the Democratic leadership see West as a Threat for good reason. It's not because of their, easily debunked "spoiler" narrative, it's because West could fuck up the entire progressive plantation.
Ross Perot
Incumbent
Hope the fascist hell you wish upon us treats you well. Work on your propaganda daddy Putin is really starting to just pay anyone.
Did they say that Ross Perot was a threat to the constitutional order? I find that unlikely, they certainly didn't make this much noise about it the year before the election.
And yes, everyone who disagrees with you is a Putin bot -- speaking of the early 90's, do you remember see how Clinton supported Yeltsin's coup which directly paved the way for Putin to take power in the first place? Of course, Bill couldn't have known that, but maybe the lesson here is we shouldn't be supported coup's in other countries, ya know, overthrowing democracies and putting fascists in power. That's bad right?
I totally agree, putting fascists in power is bad! So voting for a third party candidate that will split the vote of the left and bring fascism to the presidency is bad. If you really don't understand this you are lying to yourself or arguing in bad faith. I'm sure you will reply, but I'm done.
I'm just saying we need to hold our Politicians accountable in order to make sure they do they right thing. I believe in Democracy and part of that is a having a lively debate about issues that affect us - not just lock step refusing to acknowledge that people are suffering. That doesn't help us overall, and that certainly doesn't help you win an election, so I hope that the presence of 3rd party candidates will force the democrats to move left on key issues, maybe they can spend the many millions of dollars they receive on mobilizing voters, because otherwise they are most likely going to lose. The Democrats need to deal with their own internal problems and start asking why the hugely unpopular GOP is so close to beating them instead of blaming everything on 3rd parties.
wishing for cornel west is not wishing for "fascist hell".
Wishing? Fine you got me wish your ass off. Voting for him though is splitting the vote and putting a fascist in power. Wish all you want but if you don't vote for the Democrat in the presidential election don't expect me to share my bread scraps while we are in the reeducation camp!
if cornel west wins there isn't going to be any camp.
but if you're worried about shooting the vote, you should consider voting with the principal people who won't vote for any other person.
There are more than 2 choices. Democrats just don't have the balls to give up the entitlements they've come to rely on with the status quo.
Incorrect. In FPtP, the presidential race has only two options. Anything else is a vote for the candidate you don't want.
This has been proven mathematically.
@tidy_frog
incorrect
so-called "third party" candidates win the presidency in the USA. it is a fact.
I want more candidates like Cornel West.
I am excited to vote. Maybe another candidate can catch my attention too.... please? The one party system outside of swing states is boring. Biden was a not Trump vote which is also boring. We can do better than the current voting arrangement.
Wait, Cornell West is running?
As a third party, which will just split the liberal/centrist vote.
Splitting the vote is liberal bullshit myth, we wouldn't vote for your shitty candidates if there were no 3rd party candidates running
Ross Perot called and told you to suck it.
This.
History. Learn it.
Pay attention in class next time. It's a concern because it happens quite frequently in first past post voting systems.
Ralph Nader too.
As a third party candidate, which is useful presuming one wants to split the left.
Split the vote is liberal myth. If there were no 3rd party candidates we still wouldn't vote for your shitty corporate owned neo liberal warhawks.
Voting for a right wing party like the DNC does not position you on the left
It does when the other choice is an actual Nazi.
You do realize that we can disagree on the details and still be on the same side, yes?
Nazi or enabler of Nazi makes them both guilty.
By your own logic that makes you guilty
I don't enable Nazis, I oppose both right wing fascist parties
How many votes did Gore lose by in Florida? How many votes did Ralph Nader get in Florida?
IDK, maybe you should ask the 15% of democrats that voted for Bush instead of Gore, and not the 3% that voted Nader. Maybe you should ask Gore why he lost his own home state despite Clinton winning it by a huge margin 4 years earlier which would have won him the WH,, maybe you should ask the DNC why they rolled over in Florida and didn't challenge the results.
Democrats are not entitled to our votes, and do nothing to earn them. Even on the chance there is no 3rd party candidate running we wouldn't vote for your shitty candidates. Liberals are the reason government is so fucked up, they never hold their elected officials accountable. They could commit mass murder and still get elected.
No one is entitled to your votes. We're talking about pragmatism and reality, not entitlement. The reality is that in 2024, there are only two people who will have a chance of being president, one a Democrat and the other a Republican. That's just reality. You may not like it, but that is how things work. By voting third party, you are either spoiling the election or throwing your vote away. There is no third option there.
No, that is your reality, because you've experienced a lifetime of gaslighting to convince you that there are only two options. If 70 million Democrats voted third party, that third party would be first past the post thereby creating a third option. But the truth of the matter is duopoly voters are not concerned primarily about keeping the other party out, They're more concerned about being on the winning team. And they feel obligated by peer pressure for fear of being ostracized by your peers to fall in line and vote as the echo chamber tells you to
Oh, well you know Flying Squid better than I do.
Based on your defence of neoliberals I can make broad assumptions based on other's defence of the same policies and people. The echo chamber collective mind doesn't allow for differing opinions
Please quote my defense.
Yes! He's running as a green. And the democrats are 'concerned' and telling people don't vote third party or else you'll get trump!
But then when asked why they won't add something like STAR voting to their platform, they go quiet. They love holding us hostage and don't want to give that up! 🤣
If you vote third party in a presidential election then it is a wasted vote.
If third parties want to win presidential elections then they need to start by consistently and widely winning governorships, becoming state senators, reps, etc. They can’t win, and they won’t shift public debate, by running for president.
There's a good reason Bernie never has and never will.
He's been saying for decades he's never thought he could win the Dem primary. His presidential runs has always been about motivating change.
It's worked, and more importantly he's shown why voting third party is just as bad as not voting.
I'll start voting for 3rd parties when one emerges that's viable, or when we get some form of ranked choice voting; under our current first-past-the-post 2-party system it's a wasted vote that only serves the greater evil.
The only time I'll vote 3rd party in a FPtP system is when one I agree with officially replaces one of the two major parties. Anything less is a wasted vote for president or senator.
Anything local though...
I've wasted my vote in presidential elections and I'm proud to say it, then. I'll vote for who I want, and if the best mainline options are "old ass Nazi" and "old ass ~~racist~~ super duper promise he's not racist anymore, here's a black VP", well, sucks to suck, do better.
Not scared of voting third party; just because I've never voted R doesn't mean I've always voted D.
Yep