They didn't accidentally do shit. They ignored the consequences of their decisions for profit at the expense of everyone else. You don't get to make $100 billion dollars and feign ignorance about how you got it and the damage you caused to obtain it.
this post was submitted on 12 May 2024
577 points (94.6% liked)
Technology
59392 readers
4208 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I still think municipalities share a significant amount of blame here. They definitely could have at least limited vacation rental saturation, and didn't do anything.
I live in a ski town, and have been to city hall meetings on this issue. The overwhelming amount of attendees at these are vacation homeowners or their representatives, and the prevailing attitude is, "fuck the locals, our profit is at stake here." A number of owners have changed their primary residence to our town just to have more say that local long term renters. These meetings are held at 2pm, when locals are working. It's about as fucked as it can get. And when we've had a sympathetic council person, they're immediately recalled or replaced the following election cycle. It's a shitshow.
During COVID, when the Airbnb boom really took off, we had a 25% resident attrition rate. That's no typo; twenty five percent of our valley's residents had to leave town because they were priced out (about 5000 in a population of 20,000) because either rents skyrocketed, or the owners of their homes sold out from beneath them. These days, much of our local labor force commutes at least an hour into town. It has gotten a little better, and some have been able to moved back, but the damage is done.
Even for prospective buyers, like my wife and I, prices are outrageous. Our current home, which is valued around $600k, would have been $200k pre COVID. And this is solely because of Airbnb assholes.
My office regulates airbnbs for the city and it's very hard to do anything about it. None of the rental platforms will work with us - we've sent them about a million notices that they're collecting the wrong tax amount and they don't even bother to respond, and they just send a check every quarter but refuse to break it out by address/owner. They won't provide any data on what addresses are being rented, either. Apparently some other cities have successfully sued airbnb, but for a small city with a correspondingly small budget, that's an expense that's hard to justify to taxpayers.
We have some owners that are great - they get licensed right away, get their inspections done, no problem. Then there are other people who have done things like dig out their crawlspace themselves and turn it into non-conforming bedrooms with no egress windows - no permits or inspections, of course, and an engineer basically said the entire thing was in danger of collapsing any minute. Or the person who had a buddy do a bunch of unlicensed electrical work that was so bad the city couldn't even let the owner stay there until it was fixed. I honestly wouldn't stay in an airbnb now, having seen what I've seen - people will absolutely put renters at risk to make a buck. And we can go after them but only if we know it's happening.
I'd personally love it if rental platforms were forced to provide owner data to cities/states, and for cities to tax the shit out of rentals that aren't also owner-occupied, but I'm not in charge and the people with money have a vested interest in making sure that doesn't happen. It sucks.
I'm an activist writing a housing bill to get introduced to my state legislature. Part of it specifically addresses these platforms, but I don't know what's been tried against them yet. Any tips?
Unfortunately, I don't know too much - most of the contact has been initiated by our sales tax staff to whatever department handles tax collection on the company side, but from what they've told me, they just don't get a response. Our municipal code only allows us to go after owners if they fail to get licensed (and even that is a nightmare for us to try to do) but there's nothing about the actual companies.
It's kind of the wild west at the moment - the problem isn't evenly distributed, so there's not one catch-all solution. One of the mountain towns here said they have 700+ rentals and their official population is only like 500 people. We have <100 in a city of about 40k. It's still a problem here, but nowhere near as bad as ski towns have it. Most of the laws I've seen are aimed at the owners, not at the companies facilitating the rentals, and they range from things designed to just make sure someone's actually inspecting the rentals so no one dies all the way to making it unaffordable to rent multiple properties by charging a fuckton of taxes and fees. I'd kill for something forcing airbnb, vrbo, etc to actually cooperate.
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(6 replies)
Visiting my husband's home town where this has happened and all his parent's friends have moved into trailers because the houses where they raised their kids were bought for insane amounts but then they couldn't afford a smaller house in the same town. Where we live now on the East Coast, we can no longer stay in our school district for less than half a million because doctors from larger urban areas keep buying the houses in our school district and we're being forced 60+100 miles out from my hometown where we raised our young kids to even begin to afford housing.
load more comments
(1 replies)
You don't get to make $100 billion dollars and feign ignorance about how you got it and the damage you caused to obtain it.
Don't you? I can't think of any instance of justice truly being served to billionaires, can you?
SBF recently and Madoff before him.
Those are fair points, but I can't help but chuckle that they were brought to justice because they stole from millionaires and other billionaires to make their ill gotten gains. Probably woulda got away with it if they just stole from the poor and middle class.
load more comments
(3 replies)
...decisions for profit at the expense of everyone else.
-The American Dream™
load more comments
(3 replies)
Accidentally? Man these writers will suck any corporate dick.
Yeah, real hard-hitting journalism here from... arktrek.shop?
load more comments
(1 replies)
“accidentally” 🤦♂️
It was - and is - entirely fucking intentional.
US policymakers screwed themselves with crappy urban planning, leading to insufficient housing supply and bad transit options. Blaming AirBnB for high housing prices is like setting up a chain of dominos, and criticizing a guy who comes by and knocks it over. If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else, or the wind.
This is happening worldwide. It has very little to do with urban planning and more with lax homeownership restrictions that allows the wealthy and corporations to scoop up housing supply for profit.
"The wealthy and corporations" have choices of how to invest their money. If housing supply is sufficiently elastic to meet demand, they'll find somewhere else other than housing to put their money. Ain't nobody trying to corner the Chinese real estate market in 2024, for instance (*).
There are a few places where land shortages genuinely constrain housing supply, like Singapore and Hong Kong. But the US has tons of land; things are simply not well optimized. That, plus high interest rates due to fiscal/monetary mismanagement.
(*) Not saying the Chinese real estate market is worth emulating.
I'll agree that there is indeed a housing shortage, but I don't necessarily think that is what's at play here. Capitalists will always park their money when they see an opportunity to make a return, regardless of industry. Housing has never really been an elastic commodity, it is inelastic in nature due to the time it takes to build and the fact that it is a reasonably sizable asset that doesn't change hands at the drop of a hat (granted there are market products that contradict this, but I'm going to ignore them for the sake of this conversation). Further, they have always been marketed as an investment vehicle, albeit a long term one.
And while there is plenty of land in the US to build on, housing is only as attractive as it's local market. Plenty of communities have popped up via ambitious developers, but fall on their faces when the demand is inexistent (California City being a famous example). Better transit options can alleviate this, but people are still drawn to geographic proximity to jobs, schools, entertainment, etc.
Homes in high demand areas fetch a premium because people want to live where they work and play without the commute. These areas are already well developed, and yes had their been more relaxed zoning laws, more housing stock could have been built. But, I would argue that many communities built 50+ years ago were built with the then current demand in mind, not the demand of today. Sure that could be pinned on developers and city authorities not having enough foresight, but I don't really blame them for not being able to comprehend both prospects of an exploding population and the demand these cities currently see.
Short term rentals are tricky because no one is going to vacation to a suburb 30-45 min from an urban center or destination location, they want to be in the heart of the action. These properties present an ideal investment opportunity for these operators in that a) they purchase an appreciating asset, and b) they generate a short term return. It's almost a guaranteed profit for them.
Cities saw this problem growing, and should have taken preemptive action. Yet they ignored it because they were listening to moneyed interests. Now that it's become a full epidemic, it'll be much harder to contain.
Soil consumption is one of the many environmental problems we face. Polluting and consuming more soil to condition the market is nonsense IMHO. Governments should simply regulate more so that people vacationing will go to hotels and houses will be available for residents. This also addresses the issue of locals being pushed further and further away in the cities they live, which creating more houses doesn't solve (it will just be the next round of isolated dormitory periferic areas, which have already tons of problems).
Short term rentals for houses was a very good and lucrative idea, but it's harmful to basically everyone but the landlords who rent out houses there. As such, we should simply strongly regulate it to discourage it as much as possible, if not banning it directly.
load more comments
(3 replies)
load more comments
(5 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
Blaming AirBnB for high housing prices is like setting up a chain of dominos, and criticizing a guy who comes by and knocks it over.
Yeah, and that's exactly what they chose to do. They contributed to the reasons John Public can't afford housing, and were rewarded massively for it.
If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else, or the wind.
Yeah, anyone can rob a bank with poor security, but we should still punish the guy who actually robs the bank.
load more comments
(2 replies)
This is a stupid light take, starting with the flowery version of their early 2010-ish "good intentions".
Their "guarantee" insurance was notoriously difficult to actually access if needed. This was typical enshitification from the start, they just had to do a bit more early to gain public trust, until they reached critical mass and then flipped the switch.
The drug dealer gives you the first baggie for free, not because they are good dudes that care about you saving money...
The drug dealer gives you the first baggie for free
We should kill this urban legend, this simply doesn't happen in the real world
Not an urban legend, just not in your first hand POV - Many examples around crack in the 80s, Molly at raves, a bump of coke at a party... All followed by, "and hey man, if you ever want more, hit me up"
When you're making definitive statements try to add "doesn't happen TO ME...." or "IMO/IME", otherwise you just sound like you base the truth of the entire world solely on your own hyper limited, lived experience.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Can confirm this happened to me a few times, especially with dope, you don't know what you're talking about
Sure it does. Or at least it happened all the time when I was in college.
load more comments
(2 replies)
The only thing they've ever done on accident was make their logo look like a ballsack.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Accidentally?
Same when NASA accidentally landed on the moon
I don't think it was accidental
I can't believe people trust others enough to rent their house out like a hotel. I've already seen so many problems from this I can't believe it's still legal. My neighbor moved and they turned it into an AirBnB, some kids threw a party and left some trash out that poisoned my other neighbors dog. There's a lawsuit, but the dog is still fucking dead.
I don't know if I've ever been in an airbnb that's actually somebody's house. It seems like they're mostly "investment properties" that people rent out. I'm sure that's great for housing. \s
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
There are a few things humans (and thus a healthy society) require for survival. Water, food, shelter.
When we start to point unadulterated VC backed capitalism at those resources, I think we give up something in our society and culture that we don't actually want to give away.
I travel a lot worldwide and have used Airbnb quite a few times. However I'm now on the side of "Airbnb is evil".
A couple years ago had a horrific experience in a villa and Airbnb customer support didn't give a rats ass. Fortunately, my bank did and my credit card chargeback for $4,000 was successful. While I was going through that experience I came across a multitude of communities of travelers who have had equally horrific, oftentimes more horrific experiences with Airbnb where they've failed to step in and assist in any way.
Random dudes who own houses are on average unqualified in the hospitality business and not incentivized by maintaining a brand reputation. There are so many issues caused by shitty Airbnb hosts that hotels - real hotels - just don't suffer from.
So now we have this situation where a lot of spaces are allocated to hotel businesses, more space is allocated to residential housing, And any random dude who can qualify for a mortgage can take a house off the market, fill it for 10 or 15 days out of the month, and keep both a domicile unused for a resident and a hotel room empty.
This is one of the few areas where I think hotel regulations are smart.
load more comments
(5 replies)
I feel like the US is far down on the victims list. Look how they massacred my boys Spain and Italy
load more comments
(1 replies)
Remember back before Airbnb when this was just a free thing called couch surfing?
i mean couch surfing is guest and host being there and interacting with each other.
AirBnB is getting the flat for yourself for the time you rent it.
A big part of Airbnb used to be spending time with a host. It has since turned into just landlord via app.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(4 replies)
Just gonna leave this here. Pick your favorite city.
edit: guess we killed it. But there are a lot, a lot
Jesus. I can't find an affordable apartment in Boston but "Blue grounds" is listing fucking 372 of them on Airbnb....
EDIT: so Blueground is the biggest property holder in almost every city? Or one of the top 5 in the places it isn't #1. What the hell?
load more comments
(1 replies)
It also doesn't help housing prices that the landlords are colluding to raise prices:
https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2024/03/price-fixing-algorithm-still-price-fixing
It isn't just Airbnb's fault, it's landlords wanting to maximize their return, no matter the method (short-term rentals or price fixing collusion).
load more comments
(5 replies)
Just a little fucksy wucksy :3
“Accident” fkn lol
view more: next ›