this post was submitted on 08 Jun 2024
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[–] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 49 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (14 children)

Remember kids, God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and created EVERYTHING; including evil and suffering.

This means that God created evil, knowing full well what that meant for us humans. He knew Adam was going to eat the apple, and lie to him about it, but still got angry that he was lied to; so angry that he damned the rest of humanity as punishment.

So if God created evil, and knew what that would do for all of humanity, and it was a part of his great plan to do so, then God must also be evil.

You can’t have it both ways. He can’t be good and not evil if he created evil. He also lets it happen. He can’t be good and not evil if he knows every mistake we will make, and knowing the impact of our mistakes (i.e., the other people it affects). This makes God culpable for our sins, yet he is not held accountable for his inaction.

[–] RadicalEagle@lemmy.world 17 points 5 months ago

In my opinion the only god worth thinking about is one that is beyond human comprehension. Once you restrict a god to only only following human logic god ceases to be interesting.

[–] Pirasp@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Honestly, anyone who says god is all powerful and all knowing clearly hasn't read the Bible. There is a clear character arc there, and that's absolutely incompatible with those two assumptions.

I man, look at the whole Jesus thing! He makes himself human to see why the humans can't be good, he does retain at least some of his godly powers in human form tho. Even as God made human he has outbursts of rage and is at least at one time incredibly inconsiderate to his parents. Clear character faults if you ask me. At the end he is like "shit was hard man, goddamn!" and changes toe policy for going to heaven completely.

[–] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago (6 children)

Don’t forget how he raped a child to impregnate her, thus also committing adultery and breaking one of his own commandments at the same time, just so he could send his “only begotten son” to die, just to effectively give up and never return.

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[–] flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz 5 points 5 months ago

A very human-centric perspective.
There's the option that God is all-powerful, all-knowing, etc, but humans are completely irrelevant to his plan.

Unsurprisingly no human religion advocates for this perspective.

[–] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 months ago

The history of Christian theology can be summed up as: a handful of guys said "hold on, the premises of this whole idea contradict each other", followed by millenia of coping old dudes writing texts and texts and more texts rationalizing why the dogma they were indoctrinated to believe in has no paradoxes, ackshually.

[–] ModernEraCaveman@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Think of it quantum mechanically, God is aware of all possible outcomes, of which Adam lying to Him was but one of the many possible consequences of free will (note that the forbidden fruit gave them knowledge of their nakedness, they already had free will). Free will is inherently incompatible with determinism unless we account for all possibilities resulting of free will. Quantum mechanics and superposition theory is the closest we can get to understanding the machinations of God. Even then it still doesn’t help in the least.

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[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 41 points 5 months ago (1 children)
  1. Make parasites that eat baby eyeballs because why not?
[–] shyguyblue@lemmy.world 30 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Thank God for child cancer!

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It’s because they are evil sinners.

[–] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 16 points 5 months ago (2 children)

No no killing children is a mercy because it just means they get an express ticket to the good place. The world is just a glorified sorting hat after all remember?

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

But only if god does it, right?

[–] illi@lemm.ee 4 points 5 months ago

As long as I don't end up in Slytherin...

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 35 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's all part of God's plan

My responses to that nonsense include:

"Damn, that guy's a real sadist."

"Which god? My money's on Zeus, he's always cooking up this type of shenanigans when he's trying to trick some woman into fucking him."

"Our Lord the flying spaghetti monster would do no such thing."

 

Feel free to contribute some more ammo.

[–] TwoBeeSan@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Babies with bone cancer are on the express lane to becoming angels.

Brain tumors are gods creations just like little kittens.

"I'll be sure to tell my niece that God wanted her to have leukemia since he thought that's what she deserved." is my goto

[–] A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world 35 points 5 months ago (7 children)

Abrahamic religions make a lot more sense if God isn't omniscient and he's using our reality to understand suffering in a way that an all-powerful being can't

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

That or he's just a jackass that got bored and quit.

[–] Flummoxed@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Well no, they don't, because they believe in an all-powerful God explicitly.

[–] ADTJ@feddit.uk 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They said if that were the case, not that people believed it.

I.e.: their beliefs overall would be more credible if we assume they're wrong about this part.

Not personally agreeing or disagreeing.

[–] Flummoxed@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

No, I got that. There's just no way to have this definition of God within the Abrahamic context. Literally, God said to Abraham, "I am the one true God, and I can do anything. Including making your barren wife bear a child. And now you all need to cut off your foreskin to show that you believe me. And that will be our covenant."

This why these religions are so prone to fascism and general hate. Anyone who isn't with our god is against us.

ETA: And by "our god" in the last sentence, I mean the very specific definition these very specific groups have decided to use for ole foreskin-wanting dude.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

you're having a hard time with an if statement

[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It varies wildly depending on the author. Sometimes he controls all of reality and other times he doesn't even know what's happening in the next town over.

[–] K0W4LSK1@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Honestly it seems like thats what they were getting at in the very old texts, but then it gets lost in translation on purpose. imo. into this all powerful all knowing being for power or greed . if you look into the older occult side like Christian mysticism, the kabbala, and other major religious mystic writings is what I mean

[–] Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

This is kind of the plot of The Maze Runner

[–] Psych@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It is ? Are you talking about the books or something ? Do the movies and books have different stories ?

[–] Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 5 months ago

The 2nd book specifically. I think the movies may have a different plot, but I've never seen them.

[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

He's a very small-scale god, like what you'd expect from desert nomads thousands of years ago.

[–] kbotc@lemmy.world 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You all are talking about God’s existence, and I’m just over here wondering if I found my therapist’s account.

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[–] Rooskie91@discuss.online 11 points 5 months ago

With the way things are going, maybe we should stop letting god plan things. He kinda sucks at it. In fact, letting god plan anything seems to be as bad as not planning at all.

[–] Phoenix3875@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago
[–] sxan@midwest.social 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

If there were a God, I'm convinced he doesn't have a plan for each of us. "A plan" directly contradicts free will, which is absolutely confirmed in all versions of the Bible and necessary for Faith.

So: the plan would have been: set up the initial conditions, ensure uncertainty and randomness, and let the simulation run. Omniscience can be constrained to awareness of the current state of everything (although, even God would be constrained by Heisenberg's principle), yet still not know the future. And the ability to knowing the state of everything still doesn't imply the intelligence and ability to calculate, simulate, and project the future state of anything - which, with randomness, becomes increasingly difficult with each second into the future you project, even if you have a good clipping algorithm to ignore things unlikely to impact Nick.

No, God would merely be a voyeur. Since he's omnipotent, he can affect change, so he could help Nick... but that would violate Nick's free will and the premise on which Faith depends. And the Christian God is strangely dependent on Faith; Faith is given an unreasonably high importance.

In any case, there's no plan other than maybe some tweaks here or there to nudge things in a certain direction. They're all macro changes, too. Not something as trivial or personal as preventing the soccer mom from running over 6 y/o Luna's beloved cat that Luna grew up with. With chaos and entropy given free reign, Luna could develop a brain tumor in the next couple of years and die young; why bother save her from the trauma. If she's been good enough, she's just going to end up in heaven, lobotomized and permanently blissed out, and forced to spend the rest of eternity singing praises to God, anyway.

According to the Bible. If you're a practicing Christian, feel free to explain where I'm wrong about any of this. Extra points if you can avoid resorting to the fundamental inscrutability of God's purpose.

[–] eezeebee@lemmy.ca 6 points 5 months ago

she's just going to end up in heaven, lobotomized and permanently blissed out, and forced to spend the rest of eternity singing praises to God, anyway.

This always scared the shit out of me. I don't want to do that. I'll gladly take the embrace of the void any day.

[–] nifty@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Faith is given an unreasonably high importance.

Because if you don’t have faith, the entire house of cards would fall down. Some people would have to contend with justifying why they deserve to have authority or power, and others would have to justify their thoughts and actions without being intellectually lazy. Cave ab homine Deus libri.

[–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 5 months ago

I feel that I have no option but to say "Fuck you", being so called out by this.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

"This is literally what they believe"

[–] comador@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

"God works in mysterious ways my child..."

/doublefacepalm

[–] Thcdenton@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Well at least he got help :|

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