this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2024
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[–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 97 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I think most Dems, especially those who are highly politically engaged and closely follow election news, are going to vote blue no matter who. So, I think Bernie is preaching to the choir here. I think the Dems who are worried about Biden are worried he doesn't have enough support among independents, and they feel independents are much less likely to just vote for the Democrat, no matter who it is.

Now, could just any candidate replace Biden and automatically win back any of the independents he is believed to have lost? I don't know. A lot of Dems seem to think that just about any other candidate would do better than Biden among independents right now, but I'm not so sure.

[–] return2ozma@lemmy.world 96 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Remember, Bernie Sanders did FORTY TWO events for Hillary after she was the chosen Dem candidate. More events than even she did for her own campaign!

Then she had this to say about Bernie in her Hulu doc: https://x.com/bobby/status/1236349383890931713

[–] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 64 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Hillary, much like Trump, is a symptom of what is wrong with the Democrats. "It was her turn" spat in the face of people who were excited about a progressive candidate and made the whole primary a sham.

She was a terrible candidate. She was a bitter pill that many independents said "enough is enough" and voted third party or not voted at all.

I am deeply concerned that as the Republicans move more toward fascism, the left are not going to have great candidates. We're going to get established, wealthy-class friendly candidates who are willing to throw crumbs at the working class. They'll bitch and moan about how they are losing voters, never looking at themselves, never realizing that we are literally voting to just survive.

This election will be just like 2020. We aren't voting for Biden. We're voting against fascism.

And I'm personally getting fucking tired of Democrats seeing that as a win.

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[–] blindbunny@lemmy.ml 39 points 4 months ago (2 children)

What an ungrateful cunt. I don't want to be in hell with that removed.

[–] dactylotheca@suppo.fi 41 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Calling her a cunt is unfair: she lacks both the warmth and the depth

[–] casmael@lemm.ee 9 points 4 months ago
[–] misterdoctor@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I don’t want to be in hell with that removed.

Dying to know which word got removed when “cunt” was perfectly acceptable.

[–] blindbunny@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

B I T C H but even then I could be referencing a female dog.

[–] misterdoctor@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

So, we’re allowed to say cunt but not The B Word™️?

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[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 35 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Progressives need to learn this lesson: liberals will always shift the blame.

[–] return2ozma@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago
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[–] Throw_away_migrator@lemmy.world 22 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I think the other concern is voter turnout/enthusiasm. The last presidential election had extremely high turnout. Even if voters (in swing states) don't switch candidates but opt to stay home instead that could translate into a significant electoral problem too.

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[–] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 50 points 4 months ago (2 children)

This Bernie guy seems pretty energetic and popular... why not put him on the ballot?

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[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 40 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Or stop bickering and replace him ASAP.

But really, I don't think this is bickering. I think it's an intentionally slow drip of news to get people more receptive to the idea of replacing him with Kamala, so that it's not a bomb dropping all of a sudden, which would likely freak out a bunch of voters and cause them to lose votes. Boil the frog slowly and there's less of a splash.

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[–] cabron_offsets@lemmy.world 40 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (45 children)

Wishful thinking from Bernie. For fucks sake:

politics is showmanship, not an intellectual endeavor.

I fucking hate that, but it is the immutable truth.

You NEED a charismatic leader to win. Biden needs to fuck off.

I will ALWAYS cast my vote to most effectively suppress the republican traitor filth. But Biden’s a goner.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

Exactly. I cannot fucking believe he can say with a straight face that it's not an entertainment contest. It's the biggest American Idol contest there is and sure as shit isn't a job interview.

[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 8 points 4 months ago

It seems like the establishment is hell bent on making the choice Biden or Harris and Harris might be the only person less likely to win.

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[–] Rooskie91@discuss.online 32 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Oh, haha, first time trying to unify the left, huh?

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

He's just done with our shenanigans

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[–] maniii@lemmy.world 28 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Drumpf is a living survivor martyr. Nothing is now gonna hold anything back. Every thing is now going to hit the fan.

[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 10 points 4 months ago

Honestly second thing I thought of when I saw it. First was that it was staged.

[–] orcrist@lemm.ee 27 points 4 months ago (1 children)

We saw mass media and the Dems pull the same thing in 2004. Decide a candidate is unelectable, before the election, and then make it happen. What happened to letting the voters decide? What happened to democracy? Meh.

It was sick then, and it is sick now. If the man is too old, OK, but we all knew his age a year ago. To pretend to be surprised and concerned now is laughable.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

What happened to letting the voters decide?

"Everyone needs to get out and vote!"

voters start bickering over who to vote for

"NOT LIKE THAT!"

If the man is too old, OK, but we all knew his age a year ago.

Which is why its crazy he didn't have any kind of primary contender. Hell, its crazy he didn't just wrap this at one term and pass the torch to any of a number of popular and highly competent governors.

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[–] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 26 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Rare case of disagreeing with you, Bernie.

[–] shiroininja@lemmy.world 29 points 4 months ago (4 children)

I have an unpopular opinion. Swapping candidates a couple months from election will look really disorganized and even weaker than keeping him. Especially to swing voters. And it’ll be rushed. I doubt the replacement will be well known, so you expect me to get to know, learn who they are and develop a platform in a couple months? I think they’d lose too.

It’s too late. The spineless centrists controlling the party waffled too long and I bet they cost the election again. Just like in 2016. I’m really disappointed in the Democratic Party and how it’s condensed it’s power more towards the top and quite frankly, am tired of their muted response to things like project 2025 until months before the election. It’s been around since. Before trump was elected, but without a catchy name. I passed around the leaked documents on it in 2017.

I’m just reminded of ‘Baby I’m an Anarchist’ by Against me! Lately. I’m not an Anarchist, but I feel the lyrics about the my fellow spineless liberals

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

Swapping candidates would look really, really bad.... unless he comes up and says "I had a talk with my doctor, he says I've developed a chronic condition that I didn't know about past year. I can't do it anymore, but here, vote for my VP, who you all already voted for once anyway, and would take over anyway if this thing kills me".

He can leave out that the chronic condition is just notgonnawinatall, and his doctor is also his pollster.

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[–] Thteven@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago

He understands the two party system we're left with. If we don't back the democratic candidate we will be fucked by the 30% of the population that wants Cheeto Messiah in the white house.

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[–] Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee 23 points 4 months ago (1 children)

A thought I haven’t seen offered much, but could give Biden an ego-soothing role instead of being put out to political pasture - a Harris:Biden ticket.

She gets to be the energetic go-getter at the front (that the Maga hate-oil salesmen are shrieking about atm) while Biden can play the ‘elder statesman’ role of advice and experience to Kamala instead of running himself. You defuse a lot of the competency/decline arguments against Biden, and gird against one of Harris’s biggest threats - her lack of international experience.

Kamala is not a political unknown, but Biden is losing/equal right now to Trump with the DNC money & publicity machine working for him the last eight years. I’d argue Harris has a better shot if those efforts are swung her way. I don’t like Harris, but needn’t convince me to vote team blue - it’s the ~9% undecided we need to convince.

[–] akakunai@lemmy.ca 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I mean, this isn't an awful idea...

The real world logistics probably make this more complicated than implied, but I don't mind the intent.

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[–] WatDabney@fedia.io 15 points 4 months ago

I'm with him 100% on the first bit - at this point, the single most important thing the Dems have to do is stop bickering.

As for the rest, at this point I don't even much care. I can see arguments both for and against in both directions - either choice is going to involve some risk but either choice can be made to succeed.

So the important thing, and really the ONLY important thing, is to pick one and run with it. Stop with the dilly-dallying and the second-guessing and the bitching and moaning and hand-wringing and make a choice and stick with it, so we can focus ALL of our attention on pounding those fucking fascist traitors' dicks into the dirt.

[–] Vendul@feddit.de 14 points 4 months ago

Bernie or bust!

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 10 points 4 months ago

I agree. The asked. Biden responded. Move on. The ticket has a vp. Its fine.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Right his whole life, correct here too.

[–] return2ozma@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

He also told supporters to vote for Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020. But... he does tell voters to make up their own decision

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 12 points 4 months ago

I agree with all three sentiments.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

And he was right both times.

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