Free and simple multiplayer, subsidised hardware, and physical game ownership were staples of most consoles for years but now the urge to turn every device into an "everything machine" has kneecapped the very purpose of these devices.

At best, these are slightly less hassle and slightly more social than a gaming PC. At worst, they're as anti-social and user-hostile without the cost benefit that once made them genuinely preferable.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 3 points 6 days ago

Sony will try to drag this thing out at least one more generation. If that goes like this one--and it has room to actually go worse--then Sony will have to make some hard decisions.

[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 16 points 6 days ago

Sony’s problems are twofold:

They are charging an absurd amount of money for a game console
They are selling a game console that has practically no first party games for it.

If they had plenty of the latter, they could weather this. But there are still games releasing for the PS4, and they have had 1, maybe 2 PS5 releases that would qualify as first party this year (that don’t bubble down to PC).

[–] MeatStiq@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago

I love the price. At $700 it's just what I needed to convince my friend who was holding out for the pro to move on to PC. $700 buys a pretty decent AMD card nowadays. Shit for $800 we're talking decent refurbished gaming PCs.

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 24 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

The side-by-sides are definitely diminished returns compared to earlier gens where hardware bumps had very noticeable gains.

I am sure the performance is measurably better than the base PS5, but I don't think it's $200-plus-separate-disc-drive better.

I also found the game choices they used for some of these comparisons to be odd picks. Sure you have "Made for PS5" exclusives like the new Ratchet and Clank, Returnal, and Spider-Man 2, but they also heavily showcased:

The Last of Us Part 2
God of War: Ragnarok
Ghost of Tsushima
Horizon: Forbidden West
Control

All of those are last-gen games that received PS5 enhancements. Being on a base PS5, I already feel like I am getting the "better" experience compared to the default for those games, so why upgrade?

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Well, as a PC gamer, there's a bunch of settings you can turn on from "last Gen" games to make them look better. Just because they ran on those machines doesn't mean you were getting the best version. If you're playing on console you're never getting the best version. This newer one can just turn on more settings and a higher resolution and framerate than the previous ones. I wish they'd let players decide what settings they want themselves, but sadly that's not happening on console anytime soon I don't think.

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Chasing the "best version" is a fool's errand, though. Unless you're buying top-of-the-line hardware every cycle, you'll never have the best. And even then, there are games that seem to target future hardware by having settings so high not even top-end PCs can max them out comfortably, and other games that are just so badly optimized they'll randomly decide they hate some feature of your setup and tank the performance, too.

Everyone has their threshold for what looks good enough, and they upgrade when they reach that point. I used my last PC for 10 years before finally upgrading to a newer build, and I'm hoping to use my current one as long as well.

But just based on the displayed difference in performance between the base PS5 and the PS5 Pro, it doesn't seem like a good investment for what benefits you get. It's like paying Apple prices for marginally better hardware, and with overpriced ~~wheels~~ disc drive sold separately.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

For sure, trying to max out everything is a bad idea. You can always have from FPS and higher resolution, for example. My point is just that "last Gen" doesn't mean anything. The previous console versions couldn't max the games out if they had graphics options. The game being older doesn't mean it doesn't take advantage of more advanced setting with better hardware.

I think chasing high graphics settings in general is a dumb idea. My favorite games are low fidelity indie games that do interesting things (right now Ostranauts, but also Factorio, Dwarf Fortress, and so many others). The games that max out my hardware are generally worse games. If you're selling your game based on graphics then you aren't selling it based on gameplay. I know console players generally seem to care about "realistic" graphics more, but it's a fool's errand.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] 2ugly2live@lemmy.world 20 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I already feel like a chump for getting the PS5. There's hardly any games for it. Hell, there are some games I can't play on it. I can't imagine what's changed so drastically in the last couple years to even be worth an upgrade.

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] hal_5700X@sh.itjust.works 20 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Why not go PC at this point. Modern consoles are locked pre-built PCs and paying $700 for a locked system is crazy.

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip 17 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Awesome, I can pay $700 to play Bloodborne in 30 fps

[–] TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 6 points 6 days ago

No no they're going to make Bloodbore 30th anniversary re-release PS5 Pro Exclusive with 45 fps

[–] De_Narm@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago (9 children)

I'm still waiting for a reason to get a PS5 at all, everything I've been interested still got released on PS4 too - except for one single game.

I really don't care for better specs anymore, I probably couldn't even tell PS4 and PS5 games apart without a side-by-side comparison. Not to mention, to see a difference at all I'd need a new TV on top of the console. Not gonna happen anytime soon.

[–] CmdrShepard@lemmy.one 7 points 6 days ago (2 children)

One major improvement with the PS5 is the instant loading times. I don't think this thing will be any faster in that regard but it's a major improvement over the PS4. The other improvement over my original PS4 is that it doesn't sound like a jet engine after 20 minutes of running.

Ray tracing is cool but what console games are even using it at this point? It's like them advertising "8K capable" as if anyone gives a shit about that during a time that 4k is just barely becoming the standard for most.

[–] Contort3860@links.hackliberty.org 3 points 6 days ago

Consider opening up that PS4 and cleaning out any dust. It doesn't fix the noise completely, but it can make a big difference.

load more comments (1 replies)

load more comments (8 replies)

[–] Swarfega@lemm.ee 16 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Not worth it. The PS5 games catalogue is piss poor compared to when the PS4 Pro released.

[–] GoodEye8@lemm.ee 14 points 6 days ago

Kinda hard to make a solid catalogue when you follow the live service trend and your projects flop one after another.

[–] PunchingWood@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (5 children)

Frankly that's just thinking with only PS5 exclusives in mind.

A lot of people, probably the vast majority, don't get an Xbox or PlayStation for the exclusives. They just get one because they don't own or want a gaming PC and look for the easier more accessible solution.

So to them the catalogue is just fine because they don't get the console just for the exclusives.

Not sure what the point of downvoting me is, but I'd rather be interested to hear people's counter-arguments instead. Because a lot of people seem to just assume that many console-owners have both a console and gaming PC.

load more comments (5 replies)

[–] FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

I don’t see the point in this. I’m already planning to get a PC (and a Radeon 7900 XTX will always outperform a PS5), so it’s just more money for no benefit.

[–] djidane535@sh.itjust.works 9 points 6 days ago

At the beginning of this generation, I planned to buy a used PS5 when the Pro version was coming. I did not know that the PS5 would have almost no games for me (especially because they released the big ones for me on PC), the base PS5 would cost even more, and most people will not upgrade to the Pro because of its absurd pricing (note because it’s not worth it, but because the market for it is likely very niche).

I guess I will just skip Sony’s platform for this generation.

[–] antithetical@lemmy.deedium.nl 12 points 6 days ago

So far I've traded in all my Playstations for the latest versions. But this price-hike and no disc-drive are a dealbreaker. Guess I'm going for a new gaming PC and a Steam Deck now. Too bad Sony, you messed up.

[–] QubaXR@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It's a pity SONY didn't have any games to announce alongside the new console. There is nothing or there I feel like I need more power to play, and I already completed games they demoed, sometimes years ago.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] PunchingWood@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

The price increase is insane. That does not seem to scale in comparison with what you'll get in return over a regular PS5, especially if you're gonna be forced to buy the digital editions from the PS store, which are outside of the sales often the most expensively priced versions too, I've practically only bought second-hand discs for my PS5 because of that.

So either games will start running at higher framerates on real 4K, like 60FPS and up. Or developers will get lazy and stop bothering to optimise for the older generation of PS5, which will then be an excuse to upgrade to the more expensive edition to play at 4K and/or 60FPS.

I really hope the latter won't be a thing for the sake of both players and game development, there's been enough unoptimised shit lately and I hope we can move forward again.

[–] RxBrad@infosec.pub 7 points 6 days ago (2 children)

That optimization part is what worries me. I still remember games like Control & Cyberpunk being basically unplayable unless you had a PS4 Pro.

[–] yamanii@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago

Yep, people have rose tinted glasses but GTA V had a massive pop in issue on the consoles it released, the proper version was the PS4 one. Or PC.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] yamanii@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

SEVEN HUNDRED US DOLLARS!

Sony costumers need to remind them of the PS3.

[–] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

IT'S RIDGE RACER! RIIIDGE RACER! Remember that one?

[–] FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago

I hope that series comes back someday.

[–] ech@lemm.ee 6 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Is there an eli5 on how "ai upscaling" is less (or even equally) technologically demanding than just putting in better hardware?

[–] Thorry84@feddit.nl 13 points 6 days ago (4 children)

The game is rendered at a lower resolution, this saves a lot of resources. This isn't a linear thing, lowering the resolution reduces the performance needed by a lot more than you would think. Not just in processing power but also bandwidth and memory requirements. Then dedicated AI cores or even special AI scaler chips get used to upscale the image back to the requested resolution. This is a fixed cost and can be done with little power since the components are designed to do this task.

My TV for example has an AI scaler chip which is pretty nice (especially after tuning) for showing old content on a large high res screen. For games applying AI up scaling to old textures also does wonders.

Now even though this gets the AI label slapped on, this is nothing like the LMMs such as chat GPT. These are expert systems trained and designed to do exactly one thing. This is the good kind of AI that's actually useful instead of the BS AI like LLMs. Now these systems have their limitations, but for games the trade off between details and framerate can be worth it. Especially if our bad eyes and mediocre screens wouldn't really show the difference anyways.

[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 6 days ago

This is the good kind of AI that’s actually useful instead of the BS AI like LLMs

lol, trying to hedge against downvotes from the anti-AI crowd?

load more comments (3 replies)

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] Cap@lemm.ee 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MApTG1wapJA&si=6CIbRLjbfUwV29IT

Great video showing the difference of the two

[–] MudMan@fedia.io 7 points 6 days ago

I do feel for Sony's PR teams. Trying to explain the concept of visual improvements in 4K over Youtube's increasingly vaseline-smeared compression is an impossible task.

[–] essteeyou@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What do I do with my PS5 discs if I buy the Pro one day? Are they just unusable? Will I be able to get a digital copy for free since I already paid them for the disc they stopped supporting?

It seems like there's no sane migration path from PS5 with disc drive to the PS5 Pro.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago (2 children)

There's an external drive accessory you can buy from them for about $80.

[–] CallMeButtLove@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I personally find it pretty horrendously insulting they put out a "Pro" console that can't play the fucking game discs unless you pay them for an additional accessory.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 14 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Not a console gamer, but I'm sure they looked at the statistics and saw most players don't buy a physical disk anyway. Why make the machine more expensive for an accessory that probably isn't being used. On my computer I haven't had a physical disk drive in probably 15y and haven't ever thought that I needed one.

[–] MudMan@fedia.io 3 points 6 days ago

Well, sure, but that's also because on PC I can choose to buy DRM-free games and have guaranteed backwards compatibility for the foreseeable future. Plus it's not a closed system based on a console that launched with a drive. People (me included) already own PS5 discs, not from a previous generation, but from this one. It's bad enough that I need to keep my PS3 around to play PS3 games, it'd be absurd to not be able to play PS5 games I already own because the thing is physically unable to ingest them out of the box.

So yeah, for people in that position the Pro is a hundred bucks more expensive than it says on the sticker, which is already a ridiculously high number.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] Powerbomb@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I don't know if It turns out that I was stupid for not buying the original PS5 or holding out for a Pro one even from back then.

I was looking forward to this a lot because I could get the better version from day 1 and have a lot of games to play from taking and borrowing my brother's disc games.

I guess I'll get the XBSX for GTA VI when it comes.

load more comments (1 replies)

load more comments