this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
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Linus Torvalds Speaks on the the divide between Rust and C Linux developers an the future Linux. Will things like fragmentation among the open source community hurt the Linux Kernel? We'll listen to the Creator of Linux.

For the full key note, checkout: Keynote: Linus Torvalds in Conversation with Dirk Hohndel

The Register's summary: Torvalds weighs in on 'nasty' Rust vs C for Linux debate

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[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 21 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

This video is full of jarring edits which initially made me wonder if someone had cut out words or phrases to create an abbreviated version. But, then I realized there are way too many of them to have been done manually. I checked the full original video and from the few edits i manually checked it seems like it is just inconsequential pauses etc that were removed: for instance, when Linus says "the other side of that picture" in the original there is an extra "p" sound which is removed here.

Yet another irritating and unnecessary application of neural networks, I guess.

[–] Mexigore@lemmy.world -1 points 10 hours ago

I don't think its completely unnecessary, it helps save some time

[–] kbal@fedia.io 484 points 2 days ago (27 children)

I took notes for the benefit of anyone who doesn't like their info in video form. My attempt to summarize what Linus says:

He enjoys the arguments, it's nice that Rust has livened up the discussion. It shows that people care.

It's more contentious than it should be sometimes with religious overtones reminiscent of vi versus emacs. Some like it, some don't, and that's okay.

Too early to see if Rust in the kernel ultimately fails or succeeds, that will take time, but he's optimistic about it.

The kernel is not normal C. They use tools that enforce rules that are not part of the language, including memory safety infrastructure. This has been incrementally added over a long time, which is what allowed people to do it without the kind of outcry that the Rust efforts produce by trying to change things more quickly.

There aren't many languages that can deal with system issues, so unless you want to use assembler it's going to be C, C-like, or Rust. So probably there will be some systems other than Linux that do use Rust.

If you make your own he's looking forward to seeing it.

[–] Psyhackological@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 hours ago

I think it can be summed up to C is more mature than Rust so we wait for Rust to shine Rust can overcome some complex things in C and vice versa

[–] Rozauhtuno@lemmy.blahaj.zone 37 points 1 day ago

Good human.

[–] gomp@lemmy.ml 80 points 1 day ago

I took notes for the benefit of anyone who doesn’t like their info in video form.

I love you.

[–] HeartyOfGlass@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago

Thank you for the write-up!!

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So probably there will be some systems other than Linux that do use Rust.

Isn't there Redox OS?

Edit: yes, it's still alive and kicking.

[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 4 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

I think Linus mentioned Redox directly during the interview

[–] pedka@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)
[–] CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

He just mentioned it as an example of a kernel written in Rust. The interviewer asked if Rust isn't accepted into the Linux kernel, would someone go out and build their own in Rust, and Linus mentioned Redox saying that's already happened.

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

vi versus emacs

You write "vi versus the world" funny.

[–] milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

it's a polite way of saying, "intelligence vs emacs"

[–] caseyweederman@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

I use Micro except for when I forget to install it and can't, at which point I use Nano

[–] Vincent@feddit.nl 22 points 1 day ago

Doing the lord's work, thank you.

[–] pnutzh4x0r@lemmy.ndlug.org 63 points 2 days ago

This is a great summary. Thanks!

[–] gwilikers@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 day ago (3 children)

On a tangential note, what does Linus used, Vi or Emacs?

[–] AusatKeyboardPremi@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago (4 children)

He uses a version of Emacs called MicroEmacs.

I recall seeing his MicroEmacs configuration a while back when I was exploring options to start using Emacs.

[–] Brewchin@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

TIL that version appears to be on the AUR: MicroEMACS/PK 4.0.15 customized by Linus Torvalds.

Last updated in 2014, it probably has serious cobwebs now. Even the upstream hasn't been touched in 6 years.

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[–] solrize@lemmy.world 43 points 2 days ago (11 children)

C, C-like, or Rust

As always, Ada gets no respect.

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[–] GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org 30 points 2 days ago

So probably there will be some systems other than Linux that do use Rust

There's one called Redox that is entirely written in Rust. Still in fairly early stages, though. https://www.redox-os.org/

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[–] markstos@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Spoken like a wise elder!

[–] thingsiplay@beehaw.org 42 points 1 day ago (11 children)

You can't improve and break silence without discussing and making changes. The existing maintainers won't live forever, having Rust in the Kernel is a bet on the future. Linus wouldn't have adopted and accepted Rust, if he wasn't thinking its worth it. And looks like it was already worth it.

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[–] GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml 41 points 2 days ago (19 children)

I don't want to watch a video about it.

I'd like to know it, but a couple of sentences wouldn't have hurt

[–] blackbrook@mander.xyz 31 points 2 days ago (3 children)

FWIW, it's a 9 min video and doesn't contain anything earth shattering or easily summarized. Basically there is some friction between C and Rust devs, and Linus doesn't think that it's such a bad thing (there has be interesting discussion) and it's way too early to call Rust in the kernel a failure.

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