this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2024
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[–] okamiueru@lemmy.world 10 points 5 hours ago

Which is why I buy games on GoG whenever it's an option.

[–] antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 95 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Not exactly accurate. The button can still say Buy. The law says that they have to get extra acknowledgment from the buyer that they actually mean license. So it will say buy, and then it will pop up and say you aren’t buying the game, only a license, and then you have to click ok I understand. More nags. What we really need is another license agreement to pop up that nobody reads.

[–] Comment105@lemm.ee 19 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

The EULA is a wall of text that means nothing to most people, just like the TOS. The CLA (California License Agreement) or whatever this will be called with be no different, unless they specifically demand a very short and to the point.

*"You are buying a game licence that can legally be revoked without providing a refund.

Ubisoft can revoke the game license at any time for any reason.

Ubisoft guarantees access to the license for 0 days."*

I have no expectation that it will be that clear and concise.

Edit: Looks like they have chosen not to discuss the language of the "clear expansion" at all. Likely because whoever wrote the law didn't know the subject they're regulating.

From the article:

The official phrasing in the bill’s summary reads, it will “prohibit a seller of a digital good from advertising or offering for sale a digital good, as defined, to a purchaser with the terms buy, purchase, or any other term which a reasonable person would understand.”

Alternatively, storefronts can clearly explain that you’re buying a license and that your purchase isn’t a permanent transaction, meaning the license can be revoked at any time by the issuer. The most important part of the bill states that passing it will be “ensuring that consumers have a full understanding of exactly what they have bought.”

It'll probably be a wall of text like maybe a big fat paragraph and a little vague line at the bottom, or somehow manage to be short but still vague enough to not discourage sales while just barely straddling the line of being acceptable to the Californians who might one day end up bothering to look at how this ends up going, if they don't forget to.

[–] antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I was alarmed most by part B:

(B)The seller provides to the consumer before executing each transaction a clear and conspicuous statement that does both of the following:

(i)States in plain language that buying or purchasing the digital good is a license.

(ii)Includes a hyperlink, QR code, or similar method to access the terms and conditions that provide full details on the license.

The way I’m reading that it’s just going to say something like: “Attention, you access to this game which can be revoked or abandoned at any time. For more information follow this link and read the license. Press here to continue your purchase.” Nobody will read it.

[–] Zoot@reddthat.com 5 points 15 hours ago

Hopefully (fingers crossed) the blurb even saying "Revoked at will" will finally out people on edge

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 233 points 1 day ago (10 children)

Essentially, the new law will mean that storefronts like Steam will no longer be able to use terms such as “buy” or “purchase” when advertising a game that always requires an online connection. Since you won’t technically own the product and servers being taken offline would render the product useless, a different word will have to be used.

The official phrasing in the bill’s summary reads, it will “prohibit a seller of a digital good from advertising or offering for sale a digital good, as defined, to a purchaser with the terms buy, purchase, or any other term which a reasonable person would understand.”

That's actually a very good reason IMO.

[–] laughing_hard@lemmy.world 71 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm waiting for something like this since forever. I hope other states and countries will follow. This is huge.

It's not only steam, but also Amazon, Apple, you name it.

Buy means buy, not "rent until we decide to render your product useless"!

[–] Moah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 7 hours ago

I'd rather have them force the stores to actually sell the products

[–] stupidcasey@lemmy.world 38 points 1 day ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (5 children)

Can’t wait to see what marketing BS replaces it.

My money is on Experience!

Or Activate!

Or Join!

Or Unlock!

You know something with an exclamation mark.

[–] GreyCat@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

Exclamation*

[–] zero_spelled_with_an_ecks@programming.dev 29 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"Add to your library" is my guess.

[–] stupidcasey@lemmy.world 6 points 21 hours ago

To long and no explanation mark, it would never work.

[–] Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 day ago

Hopefully "license", since that's what it actually is

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[–] Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Wait so if a game doesn’t not need online connection it can say buy?

That is such a huuuge advantage to indie devs that can let you own things.

[–] ADTJ@feddit.uk 1 points 3 hours ago

No, it's not just about DRM, currently the storefronts do not guarantee continued access to the content.

For example, Valve can just close your Steam account at their discretion and you would no longer be able to log in or download any of your games

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[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 92 points 1 day ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (19 children)

A while back I was discussing Ross Scott's 'Stop Killing Games' proposal in the EU, in some other lemmy thread.

If passed, that law would make it so you cannot make and sell a game that becomes unplayable after a person buys the game, or you have to refund the purchase of the game itself as well as all ingame purchases.

If gameplay itself is dependant on online servers, the game has to release a working version of the server code so it at least could be run by fans, or be refunded.

If it uses some kind of DRM that no longer works, it has to be stripped of this, or properly refunded.

Someone popped in and said 'well I think they should just make it more obvious that you're not buying a game, you're buying a temporary license.'

To which I said something like 'But all that does is highlight the problem without actually changing the situation.'

So, here we are with the American version of consumer protection: We're not actually doing any kind of regulation that would actually prevent the problem, we're just requiring some wordplay and allowing the problem to exist and proliferate.

All this does is make it so you can't say 'Buy' or 'Purchase' and probably have a red box somewhere that says something like 'You are acquiring a TEMPORARY license that may be revoked at any time for any reason.'

US gets a new content warning. EU is working toward actually stopping the bullshit.

[–] PenguinTD@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 hours ago

If gameplay itself is dependant on online servers, the game has to release a working version of the server code so it at least could be run by fans, or be refunded.

I replied to one of it a while ago and basically, this part is impossible since developer also "license" 3rd party backend/plugins/software solutions to make their server working. The developer do not have the right to release licensed code/api etc.

meaning, say if a backend have the free learning version of license, the developer are bound to the commercial license, which dictates if they can release code that involve 3rd party code/api.

[–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

To which I said something like ‘But all that does is highlight the problem without actually changing the situation.’

I think the idea is, that the minimally invasive regulation only has to fix the information imbalance between producer and consumer. Then, once the consumer has all the information, they can make an informed racional market actor descision. That's supposed to price shitty rip offs out of the market eventually.

... yeah I don't believe it works either.

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 5 points 21 hours ago (5 children)

It doesn't make any sense if the whole market is shitty rip offs.

In this case I'm not saying all games are bad, shitty games, but they are all shitty rip offs in the sense that they all legally can, and many do just suddenly deactivate, and you're not even compensated for this.

The whole fundamental legal trick the software industry has pulled is making everything into a license for an ongoing service, as opposed to a consumer good.

And the problem is that this is now infecting everything, expanding as much as possible into anything with a chip in it.

Even if the consumer is perfectly informed, it doesn't matter if the entire market is full of fundamentally unjust bullshit, as there aren't any alternatives.

All you get is consumers who are now informed that their digital goods can poof out of existence with no recourse.

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[–] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 36 points 1 day ago

Honestly, that really does track with how shit works in here.

"The orphan crushing machine may contain components known to the state of California to cause cancer"

And we're done! Fixed all the problems!

[–] orcrist@lemm.ee 3 points 17 hours ago

There are two different problems. One is easier to solve.

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[–] Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com 59 points 1 day ago (4 children)

The rise of the "acquire" button.

[–] x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 1 day ago (6 children)

So it must be "Rent" now? Logically you still purchase a subscription. So this is a very weird solution.

A better solution would be that it has information on what you're buying. "You can use this even if the game is removed", "You can play this online and even without starting up Steam", "Dedicated servers will be released when the game is stopped", etc etc

[–] DebatableRaccoon@lemmy.ca 14 points 23 hours ago

I think (see: hope) this is a stop-gap solution. It's at least better than the current implication of buying something and being able to keep it despite these companies knowing full well that the game will be gone in a much more permanent way the moment they flick the switch on the servers.

To paraphrase Ross Scott, it may be a bare minimum but it's at least nice to have it in writing just how fucked we consumers are.

[–] orcrist@lemm.ee 8 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Your counterexample, "purchase a subscription", actually undercuts the point you're trying to make. The goal is honesty here. If you are renting or subscribing, you want to know that up front, in big text, using the simplest possible word. That word is "RENT".

The issue about the lease business model being bad for society and consumers is also important, but it's complicated and different from basic truth in advertising.

[–] pupbiru@aussie.zone 2 points 8 hours ago

rent implies a continued fee though - i’m not sure a once off fee to play a game that can be rendered useless at any time covers that? rent would be more like $10/mo rather than $100 for as long as the game is available

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[–] Fester@lemm.ee 30 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There should be an exception: If they want to still say “buy” or fail to comply, they will need to refund the full original purchase price if they ever shut down the server.

Next do planned obsolescence and products that are designed to break a week after the warranty expires.

[–] Sibbo@sopuli.xyz 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Then they would need to pay everything back they ever earned if the company ever goes bankrupt. I imagine a bankrupt company doesn't have much to pay back.

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[–] subterfuge@lemmy.world 38 points 1 day ago (2 children)
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[–] missingno@fedia.io 11 points 1 day ago

They'll just change the button from "Buy $59.99" to just "$59.99".

As much as I lament the fact that we can't just own things anymore, it's not like this legislation will change anything. Storefronts aren't going to drop their DRM just so they can use the word 'buy' again.

[–] YourPrivatHater@ani.social 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

"Get" "Get now" "Aquire" "Access now" "Add to account" "license now"

This doesn't make any difference.

[–] pupbiru@aussie.zone 1 points 8 hours ago

it has the potential to make a game actually saying “buy” somewhat more valuable, which perhaps could lead to a shift from “it’s easier to require online and there’s no down side” to “perhaps we should spend a little bit of time thinking about this to get 1% boost in sales”

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