this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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Those non-violent protests shook them so bad they wanted to charge non-violent Quaker protestors with terrorism.

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 31 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Individual, spontaneous acts alone are not sufficient either. This is adventurism, which is fun to celebrate but does not actually change the equation. The answer is neither peaceful organizing nor individual aggression, but mass, millitant organizing! Throughout all of history, there have been no successful changes in the status quo without a mass, organized movement. Read theory and get organized. If you need a place to start, I suggest my introductory Marxist reading list.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The answer is neither peaceful organizing nor individual aggression, but mass, millitant organizing!

This is true, but also extremely difficult, especially in an era of mass media induced paranoia and alienation. Mass militant organizing requires a large cohesive social class that has a center of gravity - a church house or a social club or a workhouse floor - that increasingly no longer exists.

Social media was supposed to be the new venue for mass mobilization, and we saw the beginnings of it in the early '00s. But media consolidation, saturation from automated marketing accounts, and counter-programming have largely washed it out.

Read theory and get organized.

One is significantly easier than the other.

That said... go look for local unions in your town or neighborhood. Look for chapters of the DSA or the PSL or other labor-friendly organizing groups. Go to your local PTA meetings and city council meetings when you can, and get to know the people who show up there regularly. Get out of the house and meet people where they are.

That's all good advice. But its also hard, exhausting work. And its done in the face of enormous headwinds. Don't mistake the failure of leftism as a simple failure of "human nature" or whatever. We're in an entrenched system and attempting a Herculean feat to change it.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 days ago

Revolution, rather than being easy or impossible, is simply and truthfully hard. I agree, and that's why it is important to start building that and contribute to those who have already started.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

If enough individuals do it, it will be collective.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I disagree that that would accomplish anything. Assassinations do not "transfer power" as the SRs once claimed, but create a void that is filled by the next in line, always bourgeois or bourgeois adjacent. What is required is revolution, but through organization, so that there can be dominance over this sphere entirely, and the working class wrest its Capital permanently and gradually.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

One observation several have made is that audiences are defying their conservative influencers over this issue.

Maybe it’s not individually important, but I think it could be a “start” that finally gets through to so many otherwise impenetrable minds and captive audiences.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 6 days ago

I agree, I came to the same conclusion. However, that only further necessitates taking advantage and striking while the iron is hot by pressing a correct line, there's no benefit to letting this end in celebration alone.

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[–] yarr@feddit.nl 16 points 6 days ago (4 children)

As someone that was at the protest, at no point did I think it would result in the war stopping. It was still worthwhile, however. In retrospect, the war was so much worse than any of us knew at the time and also based on flimsy and/or no evidence of WMD. Business as usual in America. We'd do it all over again today, I have no doubt.

[–] Red89@lemm.ee 6 points 6 days ago (1 children)

They knew there weren't WMDs and used the fear of 9/11 attacks to push the war. They had OpEd pieces published to further push the idea of WMDs.

[–] Quexotic@infosec.pub 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

IIRC, Biden championed that, right?

[–] Railing5132@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago (3 children)

No, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, and a bunch of others in the administration championed it. Biden et al supported it. Subtle.

[–] leadore@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

Congress basically believed what they were told by the warmongers.

[–] Quexotic@infosec.pub 1 points 6 days ago

Huh, I thought he was critical in making the case. I'm no political historian tho.

[–] Coherence@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

Barbara Lee did NOT support it

[–] ContinueToServe@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I would say it laid the ground work for OccupyWallstreet, which laid the ground work for modern progressive movement.

[–] yarr@feddit.nl 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What change was accomplished by OccupyWallstreet?

They were angry about economic inequality -- it's worse today than in 2011.

They wanted an end to corporate personhood -- still totally cookin' in 2024 with no end in sight

More regulation of the financial sector -- we are more deregulated than ever today

I had to admire their aims, but as a movement it was profoundly ineffective...

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 1 points 5 days ago

I think it absolutely laid down the base for the modern progressive movement - mistakenly believing protests do anything on their own

Occupy was huge, it was global and persisted for a long time, but it didn't have any teeth - people just stopped paying attention and eventually police cleared people out

No one (rich) was losing money, no one (rich) felt threatened or inconvenienced in any way. They made their feelings known... But most people had no idea why or what they wanted, and politicians don't actually care what you want. They didn't even organize enough to be a voting block or clearly communicate their message

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[–] leadore@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The protests were amazing, nothing like it before or since. The media suppressed coverage of them as best they could. They couldn't totally ignore them but gave almost 0 coverage. Masses and masses of people packing the streets. Wish we'd had drones back then to get some good aerial footage.

[–] BMTea@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

I wish they had come armed. I wish Jan 6 happened to Bush. So many children's lives could have been spared across the years and borders.

[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Indeed and wait until Mango Fucking Mussolini decides to invade Iran. That will be one hell of a protest.

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[–] ContinueToServe@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago

Partially because "peaceful" and the definition of what would or would not be accepted as valid protest became co-opted by the management/ ivy league class.

Compare the Seattle WTO protests to the 2003-2005 Iraq protests.

[–] doingthestuff@lemy.lol 3 points 6 days ago

This is why the ruling class pushes gun control so hard. Don't let them do it.

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