this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2025
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The Losers List for today

Nebius Group NV

Nebius Group N.V., operates as a technology company that engages in building full-stack infrastructure to service the global AI industry. Its businesses include Nebius, an AI-centric cloud platform built for intensive AI workloads.

Bloom Energy Corp

Bloom Energy is an American public company headquartered in San Jose, California. It manufactures and markets solid oxide fuel cells that produce electricity on-site. Bloom Energy (BE) Gains “Buy” Rating as Data Centers Boost Power Demand

Vertiv Holdings Co

Vertiv is an American multinational provider of critical infrastructure and services for data centers, communication networks, and commercial and industrial environments.

Vistra Corp

Vistra Corp. is a Fortune 500 integrated retail electricity and power generation company based in Irving, Texas. The company is the largest competitive power generator in the U.S. with a capacity of approximately 39GW powered by a diverse portfolio, including natural gas, nuclear, solar, and battery energy storage facilities.

How Vistra Corp. (VST) is Positioning Itself for AI-Driven Electricity Demand with Nuclear Power

Nuscale Power Corp

NuScale Power Corporation is a publicly traded American company that designs and markets small modular reactors. It is headquartered in Tigard, Oregon. A 50 MWe version of the design was certified by the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission in January 2023.

Powering the Future of AI

Modine Manufacturing Co

Modine Manufacturing is a thermal management company established in 1916 in the United States. The company started as Modine Manufacturing Company by Arthur B Modine who patented the Spirex radiator for tractors. The Modine company manufactured the Turbotube radiator for Ford Model T cars.

Modine’s data center sales soared 102% year over year in fiscal 2025 Q2

We are currently focused on supporting trends like high-performance computing as the rapid expansion of AI and machine learning fuels demand for data center capacity and more advanced cooling solutions,” CEO Neil Brinker said on the call. “Although these trends can change over time, we believe that the need to meet ever increasing regulations and reduce the impact of fossil fuels on our environment [is] currently driving multi-year growth cycles.”

Credo Technology Group Holding Ltd

Credo’s mission is to deliver high-speed solutions to break bandwidth barriers on every wired connection in the data infrastructure market. We provide innovative, secure, high-speed connectivity solutions that deliver improved power efficiency as data rates and corresponding bandwidth requirements increase exponentially throughout the data infrastructure market.

Credo Technology Group Holding Ltd (CRDO) Gains Neutral Rating from Susquehanna Amid AI-Driven Data Center Growth and Valuation Concerns

Oklo Inc.

Oklo Inc. is an advanced nuclear technology company based in Santa Clara, California. Founded in 2013 by Jacob DeWitte and Caroline Cochran, both graduates of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the company designs compact fast reactors with the aim of providing clean, safe, and affordable energy. Its chairman is OpenAI co-founder Sam Altman.

Oklo Inc.’s (OKLO) Role in AI Infrastructure: A Buy Signal?

IREN Ltd

We are the responsible way to power Bitcoin, AI and beyond. We own and operate next-generation data centers powered by 100% renewable energy. We target regions where there are low-cost, abundant and attractive renewable energy sources, and where we can help solve energy market problems.

Iren CEO on powering Bitcoin and AI and scaling data centers

Coherent Corp

Coherent Corp. is an American manufacturer of optical materials and semiconductors. As of 2023, the company had 26,622 employees. Their stock is listed at the New York Stock Exchange under the ticker symbol COHR. In 2022, II-VI acquired laser manufacturer Coherent, Inc., and adopted its name.

DATACOM INNOVATION IN THE AI ERA How Coherent is powering innovation in artificial intelligence and machine learning for next-generation datacenters.

Talen Energy Corp

Talen Energy is an independent power producer founded in 2015. It was formed when the competitive power generation business of PPL Corporation was spun off and immediately combined with competitive generation businesses owned by private equity firm Riverstone Holdings. Following these transactions, PPL shareholders owned 65% of Talen's common stock and affiliates of Riverstone owned 35%. As a condition for FERC approval Talen agreed to divest approximately 1,300 megawatts of generating assets in the PJM Interconnection Region to mitigate FERC's competitiveness concerns. On December 6, 2016, Riverstone Holdings completed the purchase of the remaining 65% of Talen's common stock, making it a privately owned company.

Buy 5 Nuclear Energy Stocks to Tap Huge AI-Powered Data Center Growth

Semtech Corp

Semtech Corporation is an American supplier of analog and mixed-signal semiconductors and advanced algorithms for consumer, enterprise computing, communications and industrial end-markets. It is based in Camarillo, Ventura County, Southern California. It was founded in 1960 in Newbury Park, California. It has 32 locations in 15 countries in North America, Europe, and Asia. Semtech is the developer of LoRa, a long-range networking initiative for the Internet of Things. As of March 2021, over 178 million devices use LoRa worldwide. LoRa has been used in satellites, tracking of animals, UAV radio control, and natural disaster prediction, Semtech has been publicly traded since 1967. In 1995, Semtech ranked fifth on the Bloomberg 100 list of top-performing stocks of 1995 on the New York and American stock exchanges and the NASDAQ National Market.

Semtech’s Pioneering Role in AI-Driven Cloud Technology and Data Centers – Insights from Dr. Hong Hou Part 2

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[–] Robert_Kennedy_Jr@hexbear.net 59 points 2 days ago

do-something Come on go lower.

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 49 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Every lake on Earth juat breathed a tiny cautious sight of relief

[–] culpritus@hexbear.net 53 points 2 days ago

turning tech stocks red some-controversy

[–] blame@hexbear.net 47 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

oh is this just hitting GPU manufacturing (NVIDIA, ASML) and companies that were named in Trump's AI thing? lol. Google being down 1-2% is a normal day.

[–] culpritus@hexbear.net 40 points 2 days ago (3 children)

TSMC is already into -10% territory, this is dragging a lot of different AI adjacent stocks down now

[–] blame@hexbear.net 23 points 2 days ago

yeah tsmc is part of the gpu supply chain so its not surprising theyre being hit if asml is being hit.

Down 14% now

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 28 points 2 days ago

idk this plus the tariff thing is gonna royally fuck the US economy

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 26 points 2 days ago

No. I've updated my OP, its power generation, its datacenter operations, datacenter construction, data center cooling, its everything connected to the operation of a massive AI datacenter.

[–] Horse@lemmygrad.ml 34 points 2 days ago (2 children)
[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 39 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I don't follow finance but doesn't this prove that AI is just a bubble?

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 73 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

It proves that large sums of cash are not what predict powerful outcomes regarding the AI market. Deepseek was trained using only $5mil and without access to NVIDA's top-tier hardware. It performs just as well as OpenAI's latest model at a fraction of the resources required. Coupled with the R1 model being released for free under an MIT Open-Source license and the methodology to produce these results published publicly, anyone with the resources can replicate this method, rendering any proprietary methodologies obsolete. Older AI hardware from NVIDA that might not have run OpenAI's latest model, could very likely run the Deepseek R1 model, leaving NVIDA holding the bag. This comes on the heels of Trump announcing a joint venture investing up to $500 billion for infrastructure tied to artificial intelligence by a new partnership formed by OpenAI, Oracle and SoftBank. Now it would seem that $500 billion could be overkill.

Edit: I've updated my post, and HOLY SHIT. It's not just NVIDA, AMD, Open AI. It's cascading across the entire tech sector and all the way out to Power Generation corporations. From Nuclear Power, to Green Energy, to Datacenter Maintainers, Datacenter builders, Domestic Semiconductor producers, fucking everything.

We're talking probably TRILLIONS of dollars wiped clean off the market.

[–] culpritus@hexbear.net 47 points 2 days ago

just to add: the cost of training DeepSeek was less than the yearly salary of one manager for most of these other projects, and they had 20+ at a lot of these big western AI firms

[–] batsforpeace@hexbear.net 40 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

also before leaving Biden placed tiered restrictions on the number of newer AI GPUs that Nvidia can sell to enemy countries, and some 'allies' like Portugal or Poland also got placed in the 'middle category' which was 50k max or 100k if you sign some agreement (Polish commentators lamenting 'but we thought we were the closest allies' was very fun to see), but I guess now that restriction doesn't matter as much because it looks like you don't even need the fancy ones to get comparable chatbot results so that's another some-controversy bucket of cold water on the US

[–] miz@hexbear.net 25 points 2 days ago

no-oil they forgot Poland

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[–] Hohsia@hexbear.net 26 points 2 days ago

Our world is predicated on bullshit and shareholder feelings

[–] nohaybanda@hexbear.net 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)

anyone with the resources can replicate this method, rendering any proprietary methodologies obsolete.

It's not just that it's easily replicable elsewhere. It basically destroys any hope for these companies to be profitable (at least with this stage of development). They've sunk too much, they can never hope to compete AND make a return on the initial investment.

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 21 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Oh I totally agree. Maybe this will wipe all these idiotic AI initiatives off the map, and we'll get a leaner, more interesting market for this technology that also isn't sucking the environment dry.

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[–] sloth@hexbear.net 23 points 2 days ago

that's neat!

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[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 42 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Basically, yeah. It definitely proves that Western tech companies were spending several times more money to make their LLMs than was truly necessary, and it means that they now have to try to catch up to DeepSeek if they want to be competitive (they actually have to find ways to exceed DeepSeek significantly since DeepSeek is open source, no one is gonna pay thousands of dollars for a corporate LLM that's only 10% better than the free one).

[–] piggy@hexbear.net 48 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

I agree with the majority of your comment.

no one is gonna pay thousands of dollars for a corporate LLM that's only 10% better than the free one.

This is simply not true in how businesses actually work. It certainly limits your customer base organically but there are plenty of businesses who in "tech terms" overpay for things that are even free because of things like liability and corruption. Enterprise sales is completely perverse in its logic and economics. In fact most open source giants (e.g. Redhat) exist because of the fact that corps do in-fact overpay for free things for various reasons.

[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 34 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Also anyone who works in tech knows that plenty of tech company owners and boards get incredibly caught up in hype and will absolutely make dumbass financial decisions to purchase products on hype alone. It's ridiculous but it happens all the time. When it busts they just lay folks off and blame shit like "we expanded too fast"

[–] piggy@hexbear.net 27 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Haha..... Boy do I have stories..... I worked in a terrible evil company (aren't they all but this one was a bit egregious).

The CEO was an absolute moron whose only skill was being a contracts guy and being a money raising guy. We had an internal app for employees to do their work on in the field. He was adamant about getting it in the app store after he took some meeting with another moron. We kept telling him there's no point, and there's a shit ton of work because weh ave to get the app to apples standards. He wouldn't take no for an answer. So we allocated the resources to go ahead, some other projects got pushed way back for this.

A month goes by and we have another meeting, and he says why isn't X done. We told him, we had to deprioritize X to get the app in the app store. He says well who decided that. We tell him that he did. You know how a normal person would be a bit ashamed of this right? Well guess what he just had a little tantrum and still blamed everyone else but himself.

Same guy fired a dude (VP level) because his nepo hire had it out for him. That dude documented all his work out in the open, and then when that section of the business collapsed a day later they had to hire him back as a contractor and the CEO still didn't trust him and trusted his nepo hire, and didn't see the fact that his decision making was the inefficiency.

When I retire I swear to god I'm going to write "this is how capitalism actually works" books about my experiences working with these people.

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 21 points 2 days ago (4 children)

When I retire

Damn you are gonna retire? I'm 40 and already resigned myself to working till I die.

[–] piggy@hexbear.net 21 points 2 days ago

By "retire" I mean, when I have aged out of software and I can just burn all my bridges.

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[–] REgon@hexbear.net 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Throwback to that company putting "blockchain" in its name and having a massive increase in valuation despite no operational changes occuring

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[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 23 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yeah I guess you're right but I think even taking that into account, I'm confident a lot of startups will spring out of the ground that will be developing DeepSeek wrappers and offering the same service as your OpenAIs at a fraction of the price. So it's still trouble for Silicon Valley AI companies.

[–] piggy@hexbear.net 19 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I'm confident a lot of startups will spring out of the ground that will be developing DeepSeek wrappers and offering the same service as your OpenAIs

This is true. But I don't think OpenAI is even cornering the tech market really. The company I work for makes a lot of content for various things and a lot of engineers are tech fetishists and a lot of executives are IP protectionist obsessives. We are banned from using publicly available AI offerings, we don't contract with Open AI but we do contract with Maia for creating models (because their offering specifically talks through the "steal your IP" problems). So OpenAI itself is not actually in many of these spaces.

But yeah your average chat girlfriend startup is going to remove the ChatGPT albatross from its neck, given it's engineers/founders are just headlines guys. A lot of this ecosystem is really the "Uber but for " style guys.

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[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 33 points 2 days ago
[–] Moss@hexbear.net 31 points 2 days ago (2 children)

woah hey explain what the hell is happening. what is deepseek what does this mean.

[–] nohaybanda@hexbear.net 44 points 2 days ago (2 children)

DeepSeek is an AI model released out of China, that seems to perform on par or better than GPT 4o. But this one was a side project of some dudes, and the whole thing cost something like $6mil and uses older, less "advanced" hardware. In comparison, the OpenAIs and Metas in the west have sunk untold billions into their project, and have no hope to compete in profitability. It's glorious

[–] miz@hexbear.net 32 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] nohaybanda@hexbear.net 29 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It really is a Sputnik moment for the West, except this time the communists are the ones with the much stronger industrial base(d). Shit's wild

[–] stink@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 2 days ago (3 children)

It's insane to see how much more optimized this is. I don't know how I feel about it being open source though, USians can just claim it as their own

[–] nohaybanda@hexbear.net 12 points 2 days ago

I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people on this than me here, but I was under the impression that they've open sourced the weighting and the general approach. Have they also released their training set?

In any case, I'm not too worried. The reason OpenAI, Meta etc. got to where we are are structural - the way VC and the stock market work, the way these soulless corporation politic and hoard resources, the way the tech hype cycle flows are why we got here. Getting to copy the Chinese kid's math homework ain't gonna change any of that.

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[–] Hohsia@hexbear.net 13 points 2 days ago

Moore’s law btfo

[–] godlessworm@hexbear.net 24 points 2 days ago (1 children)

i'm barely informed about what any of this actually means but china released an AI model that apparently uses 50x less energy than chat GPT and is just as good. apparently it's also open source.

i don't really know what all this implies in reality, if it means all of these drops we're seeing in the stock will stick and these AI billionaires in the US will lose some of their power in the longrun, or what.

[–] Sulvor@hexbear.net 17 points 2 days ago

The open source part is the biggest thing imo. Any company that has been paying OpenAI hundreds or thousands of dollars a month to utilize ChatGPT for their website, customer service, or for each employee to use individually, can now just implement DeepSeek for "free" (not including cost of implementation and energy to run)

[–] Imnecomrade@hexbear.net 29 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

My China ETFs and mutual funds have been going up while S&P500 is starting to tank.

I should have bought some short ETFs on Friday as they are going through the roof.

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[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 22 points 2 days ago

Deep Seks initiated

[–] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 25 points 2 days ago

But at what cost?!

[–] Inui@hexbear.net 18 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

Sorry old friends, but my retirement account is going to love the rebound, however long it takes. The portion invested in Chinese yuan will make up for it otherwise.

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[–] ExotiqueMatter@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 days ago
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