this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2025
757 points (99.1% liked)

Games

38347 readers
2392 users here now

Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.

Weekly Threads:

What Are You Playing?

The Weekly Discussion Topic

Rules:

  1. Submissions have to be related to games

  2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil

  3. No excessive self-promotion

  4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts

  5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW

  6. No linking to piracy

More information about the community rules can be found here and here.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

This is why we need to have 90 dollar games! /s

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 248 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

This is why they need to unionize.

This isn't unique to the gaming industry, this is capitalism writ large

[–] 9point6@lemmy.world 82 points 5 days ago (6 children)

I cannot wrap my head around why the game industry hasn't already unionised massively—I hear horror story after horror story and everyone working in the industry seems to have convinced themselves they're special and it won't happen to them

[–] Lemjukes@lemm.ee 61 points 4 days ago

It’s called “a decades long campaign to erode trust and even awareness of unions by corporate business interests”.

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 23 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It's not that hard to understand. The whole gaming industry is filled with people who are super passionate about games, like passionate to a fault. This makes it very, very difficult to unionize as there's almost always some other game dev out there who would take the job for less pay and more hours.

I actually know a friend like that. He was job jumping a lot, looking for game dev roles almost exclusively. He finally landed such a role. Far as I heard, he's working overtime a lot (voluntarily) and he earns less than half of what I earn as a "regular" software developer.

[–] kattfisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 4 days ago

Yeah, like the music or movie industry, it's rife with abuse because there are so many young people who dream of working in it that there's always fresh meat for the grinder.

And selection pressure means the industry veterans in charge are people who somehow thrived in this environment, so they're unlikely to change things.

I have a friend who worked in vfx on some very high-profile movies and shows, stuff you have definitely seen. And that industry actually seems even worse! Everyone is a contractor, so you work on one project, and then you don't have a job anymore, and you better make the bosses happy if you want to get another contract ever again. Everything is stunningly poorly planned, with deadlines that are impossible to meet without working all night, constant last-minute changes from fickle directors and incredible amounts of nitpicking and demands of perfectionism.

This is likely exactly the type of industry they are turning game development into. Because it's maximum profit with minimum responsibility. Hire the best in the world, squeeze the most work in the shortest time you can out of them, and then toss them to the wind when they're spent.

[–] digitalnuisance@infosec.pub 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

AAA dev here; it's not that. It's that attempting to standardize development in a highly fluid and innovative sector can kill your competitiveness as a studio if you're not careful. That being said, unionization is also desperately needed. Blizzard recently unionized across their while studio, which is probably the best model out there right now; allow companies of a certain scale to unionize so that positive and competitive aspects of company culture/organizational structure can be maintained/improved while ensuring worker's rights against exploitation from the top-down and abused of shareholders/management. Games, and by extension their studios, are intended to be things greater than the sum of their parts, and this is reflected by each company's unique internal culture; every studio operates differently, and this is directly reflected in the games they end up putting out (OG Valve is a great example). How many big studios have you seen shed a sizeable amount of senior devs, after which they no longer seem to be able to make the same quality games as before? Happens all the time, and this is why; the internal culture and proprietary knowledge-base has had a paradigm shift wherein a lot of the studio's previous identity has been lost. That's the magic of gamedev studio culture and the people that create it, and that needs to be protected while also upholding workers' rights simultaneously. The best way to do that is to allow all members of said culture to create their own rules of union governance from within, not necessarily to have standards that maybe disrupt said culture from without. This is obviously a generalization, as you could additionally have a looser external unionization framework protecting and binding/collectively bargaining on behalf of gamedevs as a class of worker; there is more than one way to skin the cat here. Obviously there's a "who watches the watchmen" situation that arises here, so this needs to be done in accordance with reforms in worker advocacy laws holistically, because I don't even need remind anybody of the deluge of "toxic company culture" Kotaku exposés over the years; we certainly need an external and legal framework to push back against that. It's a tough nut to crack, and it's why things seem to be moving so slowly. We're pushing a boulder up a massive hill here while fighting bad actors and neoliberal capitalism at the same time.

[–] Tiresia@slrpnk.net 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Sorry for not engaging with the content, but please add paragraph breaks. kthx

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] brendansimms@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

so yea, they should unionize.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] j0ester@lemmy.world 20 points 5 days ago

I’m sure it will get a lot worst with AI bs.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 21 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Not just unionizing, but getting legislation put forward and passed that protects workers' rights.

[–] Fizz@lemmy.nz 16 points 4 days ago

Yeah this would be completely illegal in a lot of countries.

You need to either make the position redundant and then you cant hire anyone for 9months or you show 3 separates instances where they failed to meet the job requirements and were notified. You can't just fire people for the fuck of it.

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I got laid off 3 months after I launched a modern website to replace my former company's old platform that none of their other developers wanted to work with.

I did exactly what they told me, something they wanted for years and years, and then I got laid off as a thanks instead of a bonus.

lol

Though I ended up getting a job that pays 30% more so I guess it ended up okay.

[–] noobdoomguy8658@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Somewhat typical for type of work that has a clear end in sight. And they typically never tell about the project-based plans in mind. Sorry you had to go through this.

Had something like that when I automated stuff for a small company.

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

It wasn't a clear end in sight, there was still lots of content and systems that needed to be ported over to the new system, a new payment system to be integrated, and other new features they needed. They had two developers who were familiar with the new website, me and another dev. I did kind of suspect that something like this was possible, but I didn't think they would be dumb enough to actually do it. It turns out, they were dumb enough to do it.

They were just really cheap, and I was most likely their highest paid developer on my team, and myself and another dev were replaced by friends of manager that laid me off.

After that manager laid me off, I asked for a reference or a letter of recommendation, and was ghosted entirely. It happens.

[–] noobdoomguy8658@feddit.org 1 points 1 day ago

Well, it's nice that you have landed a higher-paying position afterwards. Which I hope is better in other ways, too.

I certainly don't feel better about this kind of crap just because it's not a once-in-a-lifetime event.

[–] EnderLaw@lemmy.world 108 points 4 days ago

TL,DR: Company fires hundreds of workers. CEO makes $25.6 million.

[–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 47 points 4 days ago (5 children)

My question is when workers in game studios start to make unions. It's a massive industry and the people actually making the games are constantly fucked over.

They are!

Recent and huge progress on that front. It's an industry wide union, and apparently even recently laid-off workers can join.

[–] kattfisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Many years ago. But as you said, it's a big industry, and the US is not an easy place to unionize in.

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

and the US is not an easy place to unionize in.

Moreso now than ever before.

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (2 children)

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time to plant a tree is right now.

But I don't think that advice includes people staring at a fast approaching wildfire...

[–] SabinStargem 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Funny thing about wildfires: the ashes allow a new generation of flora to take root. It will suck for us, but the children of tomorrow might have unions, vacations, and universal healthcare by default.

I can dream of a future, even if it won't be mine to enjoy.

[–] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

That’s how I feel when I watch Star Trek. I won’t be alive to see the Phoenix warp into space but I’m hopeful future generations get there.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 68 points 4 days ago (1 children)

TIL Apex had writing behind it

[–] Soggy@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (3 children)

It's set in the Titanfall universe, there's lots of lore scattered around. People work hard to integrate a narrative into the level and character designs, to imply plot in incidental dialogue or cinematics, or just literally write text entries that the majority of gamers will never read because only shooting and rare skins trigger their dopamine.

[–] telllos@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Honestly developer are making great work with how legends talk to each other during game. It's always really cool

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I think at this points it's better to not join up with a large developer or publisher. The indie market has better job security.

[–] MadBigote@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

Or better yet, organize like the Hollywood actors have WGA.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 80 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Bullshit like this is why our industry is a mess, Nintendo may be greedy fucks but their code is good because the same dudes have been working there since the fucken 80s.

[–] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 61 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I mean, if you want to emulate a corporate ethos, I don't think Japan should be the benchmark, either...

[–] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 33 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Their crunch culture is def bad (they’re going to kill Sakurai one day), but there is quite a few things they do right. They don’t lay people off and their executives take accountability. Iwata took a significant pay cut when the Wii U flopped.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 20 points 5 days ago (3 children)

They can't lay people off, so they just put them in a room with no work to do until they get so bored that they quit. It's the same thing but different.

[–] pennomi@lemmy.world 26 points 5 days ago (6 children)

I’ll take my chances with the boredom room.

load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 24 points 4 days ago (1 children)

In Japan, the barrier to firing workers is much higher than in many other places. Even layoffs for financial reasons are tough and can be challenged. This is one reason companies sit on hordes of cash here is to weather financial issues, but it also has negative economic impacts as well. That said, Nintendo are a bunch of greedy cunts IMO, and I try never to buy anything new from them anymore (just buying used where they don't get a cut).

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] pulido@lemmings.world 15 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

I think a lot of what comes out of Japan is better than the West because they haven't given up their idea of the company man.

Like it or not, having to switch jobs every few years is going to impact your performance.

Most of you have no idea how much easier it is to process information when you accept that you'll be doing it the same way for decades.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 51 points 5 days ago (3 children)

I hope these CEO's get their reckoning some way some day.

They seem to think it's all just business and cruelly wielding power is no issue, but I think they overestimate how isolated they are.

[–] rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world 28 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

They won't get any kind of reckoning that we'll understand. They're rich, powerful, and insulated from pain. They've all got golden parachutes via their weaselly networks. There will be no karma, unfortunately.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 22 points 4 days ago

If we want them to receive a reckoning, it's on us, the working class, to force it to happen.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] daggermoon@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Haven't played since they removed Linux support. Will never play again.

[–] MyDarkestTimeline01@ani.social 38 points 4 days ago (1 children)

On the one hand it sucks that a writer lost their job. And it'll never not suck. On the other hand I love when Apex Legends looks bad. I lost Titanfall 3 for that?

[–] Baguette@lemm.ee 25 points 4 days ago

In a better universe apex and tf3 could have existed at the same time

Unfortunately we live in the universe where games as a live service is the only model that big companies run on, which means all resources must go to just that one game

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

This is why we need copyright laws

In a sensible world we would not allow our society to steal the work of artists and then throw away the artist.

[–] Tuxman@sh.itjust.works 13 points 4 days ago

And then they feed the documents to a LLM and iterate over it

[–] simop_jo@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago

That's sad and disgusting.

[–] RedditIsDeddit@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago

We should pay way more attention to other industries.

load more comments
view more: next ›