this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2024
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Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ

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this contradiction always confused me. either way the official company is "losing a sale" and not getting the money, right?

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[–] henfredemars@infosec.pub 177 points 9 months ago (9 children)

In theory, sharing a digital file can have a much greater impact than sharing a CD physically. Plus, you lose access to your copy of the CD if you give it to someone else. You can think of it like transferring a license for one user to a different user. There is no simultaneous usage.

I don't personally agree with this view, but I believe that's the argument.

[–] SinningStromgald@lemmy.world 113 points 9 months ago (9 children)

I buy disc.

I rip contents of CD to computer.

I sell disc.

[–] Windex007@lemmy.world 54 points 9 months ago (3 children)

DON'T COPY THAT FLOPPY!!

This argument is only a "gotcha" if it was permissible use, but it wasn't, even before CDs.

[–] PopShark@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Not very fun fact: The developer from that video got arrested for cp possession

[–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You’re totally right, that’s not fun at all!

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[–] mhague@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The amount of people who will duplicate their tapes and CDs would be lower than the amount of people who will duplicate their digital files.

Most of the time when a law sounds silly for banning something when alternatives exist, it's because people themselves are silly and don't actually go for the alternatives at the same rate as they would the banned thing. Ie gun accessory bans, ninja star bans.

[–] Suburbanl3g3nd@lemmings.world 16 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Where were you in the early 2000s? Lol

[–] M500@lemmy.ml 13 points 9 months ago (5 children)

I don’t know anyone who didn’t do this.

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Netflix's mail service was great for data hoarders.

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[–] KpntAutismus@lemmy.world 31 points 9 months ago (2 children)

which is eyactly why piracy isn't theft.

it can still be a crime, just don't call it what it obviously isn't.

[–] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 26 points 9 months ago

It isn't piracy, either. It's filesharing.

See Richard Stallman, "Ending the War on Sharing":

When record companies make a fuss about the danger of "piracy", they're not talking about violent attacks on shipping. What they complain about is the sharing of copies of music, an activity in which millions of people participate in a spirit of cooperation. The term "piracy" is used by record companies to demonize sharing and cooperation by equating them to kidnaping, murder and theft.

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[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

There are companies out there that do allow this for digital licenses. Arturia, an audio software and hardware company, lets you de-register and sell a license key to someone else, who can re-register it. They don’t charge any fees for it at all either, like some companies do. It’s not hard, most companies just don’t care about you as a customer.

Edit: Their license keys all include five seats too.

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[–] randomthin2332@lemmy.world 67 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There's a few things about this

  1. Many times you don't own the digital good, you subscribe to it. No I'm not joking, that's why services can usually take it away at any time. You normally own "a licence to play it on a single PC" or similar.
  2. This isnt apples to oranges per se. Selling digital goods is fine, it's copying it. Similar to how photocopying a book and selling it would not be okay.
  3. It's important to note there is a narrative push by companies too. They spend lots of money putting videos on every DVD saying "downloading is stealing" because if society thinks piracy and stealing is the same, it helps them litigate and make more money.
  4. Your idea of a lost sale is a hard one, from a media company point of view, it's about making money. So if you can make people believe "a download is a lost sale" or "sharing a digital file is a lot sale" etc, then you can use that to sue individuals, isps, sharing sites, search engines etc and make more and more money while also having more power over your product.
[–] crossmr@kbin.social 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

if you live in the EU you own your digital purchases.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 21 points 9 months ago (3 children)

It's kind of not tested though.

If you've never been given the option to download it and save it and use it from there, how would you "own" it if the streaming service takes it offline?

If you can't transfer ownership of something, or have it past the lifespan of the shop you bought it from, do you really own it? I would say not.

[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (3 children)

That's not the ownership though, that's a subscription to a service. Ownership is something like buying songs on iTunes not listening to them on Apple music.

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[–] bouh@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

You do not. Or we have a different definition for owning.

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[–] BlackSkinnedJew@lemmynsfw.com 66 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

There is no difference, they just want you to believe there is a difference.

Cos if you believe it then they can make more money.

The point: GREED that's the difference.

[–] RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de 36 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Dude, of course there is a difference. If you sell a physical good you do not have that physical good anymore. If you sell a digital copy you can keep selling that digital copy because you do not necessarily give it away or delete it.

Saying that there is no difference at all between the two is silly.

To be clear, I am not saying this justifies anything regarding copyright, but it is a difference if you can sell something over and over again or just once.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago

If you sell a digital copy you can keep selling that digital copy because you do not necessarily give it away or delete it.

Steam and other DRM systems ensure that copies cannot be played. Yet you can't sell your Steam games. It is my understanding that in the EU, you can sell your Steam games. So there is no legitimate reason you can't sell digital goods.

[–] PropaGandalf@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

Thats why copying of an immaterial gpod is not stealing because the other person still has the full ownership over their copy.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com 6 points 9 months ago

There were lots of book copying back in the day, and disc copying too ofc.

[–] Stern@lemmy.world 61 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Because the book and disc guys couldn't figure out a way to stop you back then.

Nowadays college books have one time codes for tests, and games will sometimes have codes included for inportant unlocks to force used purchasers to pay up.

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[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 53 points 9 months ago (4 children)

One thing to keep in mind that may be relevant: copies of non-digital things are different than digital copies.

Digital (meant here as bit-for-bit) copies are effectively impossible with analog media. If I copy a book (the whole book, its layout, etc., and not just the linguistic content), it will ultimately look like a copy, and each successive copy from that copy will look worse. This is of course true with forms of tape media and a lot of others. But it isn't true of digital media, where I could share a bit-for-bit copy of data that is absolutely identical to the original.

If it sounds like an infinite money glitch on the digital side, that's because it is. The only catch is that people have to own equipment to interpret the bits. Realistically, any form of digital media is just a record of how to set the bits on their own hardware.

Crucially: if people could resell those perfect digital copies, then there would be no market for the company which created it originally. It all comes down to the fact that companies no longer have to worry about generational differences between copies, and as a result, they're already using this "infinite money glitch" and just paying for distribution. That market goes away if people can resell digital copies, because they can also just make new copies on their own.

[–] Samsy@lemmy.ml 17 points 9 months ago (8 children)

it will ultimately look like a copy, and each successive copy from that copy will look worse. This is of course true with forms of tape media and a lot of others. But it isn't true of digital media, where I could share a bit-for-bit copy of data that is absolutely identical to the original.

There is one exception: reposted memes, they are losing pixels more and more. /s

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[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

What about physical media containing digital data, e.g. a CD?

[–] Silentiea@lemm.ee 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

It's technically illegal to make a copy of that data for yourself and then to sell the original (while keeping the copy). That obviously doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but...

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[–] RandomCookie420@eviltoast.org 44 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Because 🤡

(there is no actual reason)

[–] jabathekek@sopuli.xyz 43 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ahem actually it's because 🤑 💰 💸

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[–] falkerie71@sh.itjust.works 41 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Physical media doesn't have the luxury of endlessly replicating itself via a simple copy and paste.

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[–] olivebranch@lemmy.ca 38 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If they could, they would. Laws aren't passed because it makes sense, but because they benefit the rich.

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[–] DeadNinja@lemmy.world 33 points 9 months ago

Logically yes, downloading or a sharing a digital file is a "lost sale" - but as Aaron Swartz said - "lost sales" are also caused by Earthquakes, Libraries/DVD Rentals, Negative Yelp reviews, Market Competitors, and so on. Why just blame it on file sharing...

[–] nooneescapesthelaw@mander.xyz 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Legally speaking you don't own the digital files, you have a license but you don't actually own it.

[–] MxM111@kbin.social 10 points 9 months ago (13 children)

So, why can’t I buy and sell license?

[–] BolexForSoup@kbin.social 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Ehhh they’re technically wrong. You don’t own the media with physical formats either. There’s just nothing they can do about it if they want it out of your home.

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[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 26 points 9 months ago

It's in the name. Copyright. As in, the right to make a copy.

It's perfectly legal to sell a digital good as long as you don't retain it as well.
It's illegal to make a copy of a book and then sell that copy.

From probably the most biased source possible: https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explained/limitations-on-a-copyright-owners-rights/first-sale-exceptions-copyright/

As they point out, most digital works are licensed, not sold, so there are terms and conditions associated with how you can use them.

So it's perfectly consistent, just grossly out of date for it's intended purpose of "make sure writers can make money selling their books without worrying that getting copies made will be pointless because someone else will undercut them and leave them with 1000 prepaid copies of their book that everyone bought cheaper".

We should have a system that preserves that original intent of "creators get compensated", without it turning into our culture gets owned by some random company for more than a lifetime.

[–] axo@feddit.de 24 points 9 months ago

Its legal in the EU. You can sell your windows key for example, despite the windows eula disallowing it

[–] PPQ@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Because companies have money, and money makes laws.

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[–] stoly@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago

Both require a license and that license is revocable in both cases. It's pretty much impossible to enforce the legal use of physical media, so they don't. Rather, they go after those making copies.

If you ever want to REALLY own your media, make sure it is physical.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

It's not? I see digital files being bought and sold all over the place. 3rd party key retailers and even the digital goods earned within games themselves. It's only illegal for you to copy and sell copies of digital goods. If you have a way to sell the original thing and no longer have access to it, it's perfectly legal. It's just not many things let you do that.

[–] TootSweet@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

Usually, when the question is "why is copyright restrictive in these evil and/or dumb ways" the safe bet is that the the answer is "Disney."

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