Document From 2022 Reveals Putin’s Punishing Terms for Peace (www.wsj.com)

submitted 4 months ago by filoria@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

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[-] Doubledee@hexbear.net 17 points 4 months ago

Well how about this tankies:

Putin can have a peace deal when his army packs up and returns to ruZZia and lets the adults in Switzerland decide what peace is gonna be without including one of the belligerents in the conflict they're resolving.

smuglord

[-] filoria@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 months ago

Terms seem rather agreeable and a far sight better than any peace deal that would be signed today.

Why the fuck did they not sign this? It properly codifies security guarantees from the UNSC, only properly relinquishes Crimea, leaves the LNR/DNR up to diplomacy, and makes Russian an official language along with Ukraine (which captures the fact that some 34% of Ukrainians speak Russian).

Hundreds of thousands dead and wounded, millions fled from the country, Crimea still lost, Bakhmut lost, Avdiivka lost, and for what? To "prevent another war" despite more comprehensive security guarantees from the UNSC? To "bleed the Russians dry" despite being outproduced by the sheer industrial output of Soviet-era machinery in Russia? To "stand up for sovereignty" despite clearer and clearer signs of covert US intervention during and following Euromaidan?

What a fucking mess.

[-] barrbaric@hexbear.net 28 points 4 months ago

Why the fuck did they not sign this?

Boris Johnson (aka NATO) told them to die to the last Ukrainian instead. Literally "the west [wasn't] ready for the war to end".

[-] stoy@lemmy.zip 13 points 4 months ago

[removed by mod]

[-] Kuori@hexbear.net 31 points 4 months ago

what's the weather like in langely? nice this time of year? jagoff

[-] LENINSGHOSTFACEKILLA@hexbear.net 30 points 4 months ago

What's the weather like in Moscow?

every time i see this i instinctively think its a bit. Surely there are not human beings this fucking deluded.

[-] barrbaric@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago

Only cool people are capable of doing it as a bit

[-] kookaburra@lemmy.ml 23 points 4 months ago

Only cool people are capable of doing it

Challenge accepted

[-] IsThisLoss@hexbear.net 29 points 4 months ago

History began in feb 2022 and the maidan is tankie propaganda

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[-] nekandro@lemmy.ml 27 points 4 months ago

Let's be clear: your claim is that no fighting occurred before Russia's invasion in 2022?

[-] stoy@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 months ago

No? That is exactly why I didn't enter a date in my post...

Putte did attack Crimea in 2014, that is what I consider the start of the current conflict.

[-] anaesidemus@hexbear.net 15 points 4 months ago

Putte? Is this some language thing or an infantile baby name a la Putler?

The roots of the conflict lie in the illegal dissolution of the Soviet Union

[-] stoy@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 months ago

Putte is a Swedish name that is commonly used to talk down to a person, calling them small, it is similar to Putin, and I like insulting dickheads with imperial dreams.

As for the "illegal" dissolution of the Soviet Union, that is a different discussion and happened 22 years before the invasion of Crimea, and can't be used as an excuse for the invasion in any rational argument based in reality.

[-] LENINSGHOSTFACEKILLA@hexbear.net 21 points 4 months ago

I like insulting dickheads with imperial dreams.

Oh, the irony

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[-] anaesidemus@hexbear.net 15 points 4 months ago

So it's both, got it.

It's not an excuse, it's a cause. It causes regional instability that eventually results in a civil war in 2013 that escalates further in 2022

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[-] Flyberius@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

If Japan, South Korea or whoever suddenly had a Chinese backed coup and took control of US naval bases in their country, what do you think the US response would be?

Because that's exactly what happened in Ukraine. US backed coup, Russia moves in to Crimea to secure it's black sea naval base.

Is this the first time you are hearing this?

Here's another what if. What if Scotland voted for independence from the UK and became socialist or whatever. Do you think England wouldn't seize is nuclear submarine bases north of Glasgow?

How fucking baby brained are you?

[-] CarbonScored@hexbear.net 5 points 4 months ago

You mean the conflict that literally started with the people of Donetsk and Luhansk taking up arms against a government that was explicitly shutting down their language and implementing outright oppressive laws against their ethnicities?

[-] Flyberius@hexbear.net 22 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I mean, the US was stirring up shit on their doorstep for nearly a decade, backing a coup and then dangling NATO membership over the noses of the new puppet government. What did they expect to happen (p.s. they knew exactly what would happen, the US wanted a war)?

And I mean, if the US can start wars half way across the world to protect its borders and interests I don't think they can be too surprised if another power does the same thing in their own front yard.

Regardless, I find the NATO malding utterly delicious. US about to lose yet another war.

[-] jackmarxist@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago

Favourite thing about this is that he literally admitted like 30 years ago that expanding NATO will provoke a reaction from Russia eventually and was against it before he got the MIC bribes. If they were so keen on expanding NATO then they should've let Russia into it when Yeltsin was in power and they could've had the entirety of eastern Europe in their fold but they just couldn't resist punishing the Russian people for trusting the west in the 80s.

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[-] SoyViking@hexbear.net 21 points 4 months ago

You are either a deeply unserious person or you're doing a very commited bit. I can't decide which one it is.

[-] kookaburra@lemmy.ml 20 points 4 months ago

What’s the weather like in Moscow?

Thanks for asking, it was around +10 degrees per Celsius this afternoon, which is quite warm for this time of the year. But there is a downside as there's melting snow everywhere.

You know what also would have saved lives, and reduced tensions? Not going to war in the first place, the fact is that Putte was the one to attack and start this whole shitshow means that Russia is in the wrong, not Ukraine.

This profound analysis is a real gem of modern Western thought!

[-] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

You know what also would have saved lives, and reduced tensions?

Not expanding NATO.

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[-] zkrzsz@hexbear.net 17 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/john-mccain-ukraine-protests-support-just-cause

Imagine China/Russia does the same stuffs in Mexico and see how US react?

[-] TheChurn@kbin.social 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The terms seem agreeable?

The terms that restrict the size of the Ukrainian military, bar Ukraine from receiving foreign assistance to rebuild its military, forbid it from seeking security guarantees from any country or bloc, ... The terms that would have made it trivial for Russia to further invade at any point in the future?

Those terms seem agreeable?