this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2024
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[–] supafuzz@hexbear.net 112 points 8 months ago (2 children)

the U.S. industrial base being in China does seem like an obstacle yeah

[–] happybadger@hexbear.net 93 points 8 months ago (3 children)

During the first COVID supply crisis after China shut down, I remember:

  1. A door factory shutting down because they couldn't domestically source the parts for doors

  2. Freight truck factories shutting down production because they couldn't domestically source some small metal part

  3. Every utilities company facing critical shortages for repairs and maintenance, warning they were one natural disaster away from the electrical grid collapsing

[–] SacredExcrement@hexbear.net 59 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

Every utilities company facing critical shortages for repairs and maintenance

Still an issue, I work for a utility and lead times for things like high voltage transformers are still ~18 months or so from what I've been told

Coincidentally, I also processed a shipment of smaller transformers that came thru from South Korea (which for us was unheard of)

It's not ideal

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[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 49 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

-Ammunition becoming more scarce and expensive because guess who makes almost every primer in almost every shell some-controversy

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[–] Kaplya@hexbear.net 66 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (6 children)

I have said it before and I will say it again: people still pretend like American imperialism is still rooted in industrial prowess. That era is long gone.

No, America is a landlord/rentier capitalist and as such will always behave like a landlord.

A landlord does not have to work. I repeat, a landlord does not work. A landlord extracts what other people have worked hard on.

American tech giants like Microsoft and Google aren’t dominating the market because they are the most competent at making the best products out there. No, they dominate because they were able to leverage on various legal and financial means to bully their competitors out of the business, and they are able to do so precisely because the sector works just like a rentier economy. Every time you use their product, you (or your employer) pays a rent to those companies.

America is never going to re-industrialize because industrialization raises the price of labor, and thus confers labor with leverages against capital. America didn’t de-industrialize itself in the first place for nothing. It de-industrializes itself precisely to defeat the trade unions and working class movements that had been gaining momentum by the 1970s.

This is how US imperialism functions. Nobody is ever going to invade America so long as it has nukes at its disposal. And as long as the dollar reigns supreme, it will continue to behave like a landlord that extracts concessions from all over the world.

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[–] HexbearGPT@hexbear.net 61 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Capitalism builds industry for war.

Socialism builds industry for human needs.

Simple as.

[–] carpoftruth@hexbear.net 47 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Except not even - if that was the case then ukraine would be winning instead of getting rinsed.

[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 45 points 8 months ago (1 children)

"Industry for profiting from wars" probably fits better?

[–] hotcouchguy@hexbear.net 36 points 8 months ago

Capitalism innovated a way to do war profiteering without all that pesky industrial production

[–] pooh@hexbear.net 55 points 8 months ago (3 children)

The idea that the US could even hope to “resolve key challenges” here is laughable. China is too far ahead in manufacturing and companies aren’t willing to spend the massive amounts of money required to expand manufacturing in the US.

[–] supafuzz@hexbear.net 59 points 8 months ago (1 children)

they might have to hire people, and then train them

gross

[–] someone@hexbear.net 40 points 8 months ago

Or even spend money on factories instead of stock buybacks. porky-scared

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 56 points 8 months ago (38 children)

Yeah, this is delusional beyond belief. Most people don't realize just how dependent on China US is today. For example:

https://edconway.substack.com/p/globalisation-is-a-far-far-bigger

[–] supafuzz@hexbear.net 37 points 8 months ago

Love when my grand interconnected system is really a single point of failure

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[–] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 38 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

You’d need to build new facilities and train people up to run lathes and whatnot. On top of that weapons aren’t made with steel and wood anymore so you’ll need to teach them some light programming too in order to mill your M4 receivers. In short America is fucked because free training in a high skill job is sacrilege here.

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[–] rootsbreadandmakka@hexbear.net 54 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (10 children)

lol, what is the U.S. industrial base prepared for?

[–] sooper_dooper_roofer@hexbear.net 51 points 8 months ago

the US industrial base

You mean prison labor?

[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 38 points 8 months ago (2 children)
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[–] Elon_Musk@hexbear.net 54 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

I can't over emphasize how true this is. We would be in total ruin in a matter of months.

Electrical shit in industrial manufacturing blows up all the time and stuff from 5 years ago is already obsolete.

When something blows up that's obsolete you have 3 options. Adapt current generation parts at huge cost. Buy 1 of 3 used units left on the planet or repair your broken unit. Repairing your broken unit requires basic electronic parts that are likely manufactured in China and even rushed it can take weeks to get something repaired. Meanwhile your money printing machine sits idle.

And so many more items made in China are essential to US manufacturering and are not easily replaced.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 43 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Oh yeah, supply chains are so incredibly complex nowadays. The only way you find out what you're missing is when you can't get it anymore. And given that China now accounts for something like 30% of global manufacturing, it's pretty much guaranteed that a lot of essential stuff will be gone if US ever decides to start a war with China.

[–] Greenleaf@hexbear.net 39 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I do think the crises of overproduction that Marx predicted have been mitigated in part by Just In Time production and lean inventories. However, that all comes at a cost - it makes the whole system much more fragile and if we ever see something like another world war or pandemic that shuts down global supply chains, the economic magnitude of that will be far beyond any simple crises of overproduction. The capitalists can mitigate it temporarily but it just means they’re kicking the can down the road.

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[–] Wheaties@hexbear.net 54 points 8 months ago (1 children)

To deter a potential conflict with China, the United States must act quickly to resolve key challenges in its industrial base.

to deter conflict we have to resolve the things that would make it difficult for us to have a conflict?

also, cute animation, is that the only way to explain things to congressmen these days?

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[–] Hexbear2@hexbear.net 54 points 8 months ago (4 children)

The reality of a modern major war with China, an ocean away, with no logistical supply chain, is that it will be fought and over within weeks, culminating with the launch of nuclear weapons.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 42 points 8 months ago (2 children)

That is the most probable outcome by a wide margin.

[–] anonochronomus@hexbear.net 38 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Right? After the US carrier fleet gets totally smoked by DF21s in the middle of the pacific. As they say, kiss your ass goodbye.

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[–] Tabitha@hexbear.net 53 points 8 months ago (2 children)

That would be hilarious if the US declared war, China's hardest battles will probably be the first few weeks of heavy bombing, then the US collapses instantly from a mysterious chicken shaped hole in their supply chain.

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 40 points 8 months ago

Oh damn, always wild seeing a post about China on reddit before the feds started pushing all the anti-China stuff there. They actually treat it like a real country instead of the Evil Bad Place.

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[–] YearOfTheCommieDesktop@hexbear.net 52 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

good, maybe we won't be stupid enough to provoke one then.

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[–] marxisthayaca@hexbear.net 44 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Deterrence by Punishment did not work with Russia. These people are so dumb.,

Just forsake Taiwan, shift your detente to Korea and Japan. What is the fucking point of potentially killing billions of people over an island the size of Maryland. You stupid fucks.

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[–] CDommunist@hexbear.net 43 points 8 months ago (2 children)

America, the arsenal of democracy, will simply ramp up production like it did in WW2

-Reddit

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[–] robinn_IV@hexbear.net 39 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

U.S. bombers smirking as they blow up factories in China just before realizing those factories were making American goods.

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[–] marxisthayaca@hexbear.net 39 points 8 months ago

In some cases, there are also single sources for key components and sub-components.

The Javelin, for instance, relies on a rocket motor—the Aerojet Rocketdyne’s advance solid-propellant rocket motor—without a second source at the moment. There is one company, Williams International, that builds turbofan engines for most cruise missiles, such as the Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile, Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile-Extended Range, and Long-Range Anti-Ship Missile. There is one main company, PacSci EMC, that produces the energetics for most missiles. There is also one foundry that can produce the large titanium castings for some important weapons systems.

xi-gun

[–] marxisthayaca@hexbear.net 38 points 8 months ago (2 children)

ACCELERATIONIST HOT TAKE: Let the united states get into a war and then sabotage whatever moribund industrial base still exists. In the most epic demonstration of revolutionary defeatism.

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[–] Adkml@hexbear.net 36 points 8 months ago (5 children)
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