this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2023
2989 points (99.9% liked)

politics

19126 readers
2406 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Trump has been charged by the Department of Justice with the following four counts:

  • A conspiracy to defraud the United States “by using dishonesty, fraud and deceit to obstruct the nation’s process of collecting, counting, and certifying the results of the presidential election,” according to the special counsel’s office.

  • A conspiracy to impede the Jan. 6 congressional proceeding at which the collected results of the presidential election are counted and certified.

  • A conspiracy against the right to vote and to have that vote counted.

  • Obstruction of, and attempt to obstruct and impede, the certification of the electoral vote.


In criminally charging former president Donald Trump for his efforts to reverse his 2020 election loss, federal prosecutors allege that Trump enlisted six co-conspirators to “assist him in his criminal efforts to overturn the legitimate results of the 2020 presidential election and retain power.”

  1. Rudy Giuliani

  2. John Eastman

  3. Sidney Powell

  4. Jeffrey Clark

  5. Kenneth Chesebro

  6. Unknown political consultant


Updated 8/3/2023 by Jordan Lund

Washington, D.C. - 4 felonies, January 6th Election Interference

Investigation

Indictment

Arrest <- You Are Here

(Lawyers have until 8/10 to submit requested trial dates, which will be announced on 8/28)

Trial

Conviction

Sentencing

Georgia - Election Interference

Investigation <- You Are Here

2 new grand juries were impaneled on 7/11/2023.

Indictment - July 11th to September 1st.

(Grand Jury work expected July 31 to Aug. 18)

Arrest

Trial

Conviction

Sentencing

New York State - 34 felonies, Stormy Daniels Payoff

Investigation

Indictment

Arrest <- You Are Here

Trial - March 25th, 2024

Conviction

Sentencing

Florida - 40 felonies, Federal documents charges

Investigation

Indictment

The original indictment was for 37 felonies.

3 new felonies were added on July 27, 2023.

Arrest <- You Are Here

Trial - May 20, 2024

Conviction

Sentencing


Other grand juries, such as for the documents at Bedminster, have not been announced.

The E. Jean Carroll trial for sexual assault and defamation, where Trump was found liable and ordered to pay $5 million before immediately defaming her again, resulting in a demand for $10 million, is not listed as it’s a civil case and not a criminal one.


Sources:


Trumps 3rd Indictment - Conspiring to Defraud the United States - 1 August 2023

NBC News: Grand jury charges Trump in 2020 election probe: Highlights

Vox: Trump was just indicted for trying to steal the 2020 election

CNN: August 1, 2023 Trump indicted in special counsel's 2020 election interference probe

Washington Post: Here are the Trump co-conspirators described in the DOJ indictment

Reason: Trump Indicted for Attempting To Overturn 2020 Presidential Election

FiveThirtyEight: All Of Trump's Indictments Could Seriously Bog Down His Campaign


Trump's Arraignment - 3 August 2023

AP: Trump is due to face a judge in DC over charges he tried to overturn the 2020 presidential election

C-SPAN: The Not Above the Law Coalition, a group of organizations in support of accountability for those who opposed certifying the 2020 election results, holds a press conference ahead of the arraignment of former President Donald Trump.

C-SPAN: Coverage of the arraignment of former President Trump, stemming from Special Counsel Jack Smith’s investigation into election interference. The former president is facing four criminal charges, including conspiracy to defraud the United States.

CBS News: Trump pleads not guilty to federal charges in special counsel probe

Chicago Tribune: Trump pleads not guilty to federal charges that he tried to overturn the 2020 election

The Independent: Trump appears to stumble over his name and age at arraignment


Official Documentation

Read the indictment by @mateomaui@reddthat.com

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Gnubyte@lemdit.com 114 points 1 year ago (15 children)

Being a US citizen, it is interesting to observe my social circles reactions to both President Biden and President Trump.

Most of the men I know trend towards being pro Trump and I don't think this will sit well with them. The reason being that I think it is less about what Trump actually does to them, but rather what he represents. Last I checked via wikipedia, Trump has anti trans campaign points for 2024.The trend I notice is that men I knew who grew up going to church feel displaced by their traditional view being eroded by things like LGBT, gender identity questions, and changing of the times in general. While the women I know who even often date these men the opposite; they feel more comfortable being accepting of everyone by default.

Should Trump be convicted, I think it will alienate a group of voters into full disbelief of the existing system. The question is does that matter at all in the grand scheme of things or should these voters feel slighted - will that matter since they have no real recourse or will they simply forget Trump given time.

In preparation for comments on this - please don't try to assign me politically. I'm simply remarking on what I've observed as a citizen when speaking with other adults in my life.

[–] SayJess@lemmy.blahaj.zone 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The question is does that matter at all in the grand scheme of things or should these voters feel slighted

Whether these voters feel slighted or not is immaterial. These indictments and trials are absolutely necessary, if we want to show that there are consequences for attempting to subvert the peaceful transition of power. The voters already feel slighted. They may never have faith in our political system again—and that is a them problem rather than an indictment of the system. There can be no in between in this case.

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago

Yep the trump cult can all go piss up a rope, fuck their feelings. They fucked my feelings up the ass with all their goddamn stupid-ass bullshit for the last 6 years or so and I'm going to laugh in their fucking faces when that bastard goes to prison.

I hope the orange bastard gets 100 years and literally dies in prison. I would have never dreamed that a pathetic sore loser could convince so many people to brainwash themselves against reality, to the point that they attacked our Capitol. An example needs to be made of him to remind any imitators that you can't fucking do that.

[–] blady_blah@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago

"When you're used to feeling on top, equality feels like oppression."

[–] jdsquared@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Honey you know the wrong men. Broaden your social circle, there are a ton of men who aren't on the trump train.

[–] Gnubyte@lemdit.com 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I actually spent some time thinking about how I wanted to describe this and arrived at "men I know" because that left it as broad as coworkers, friends of family or people I do not spend gracious amounts of time with. Reddit is on the door to your left. Have a free block.

[–] rockyrikoko@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Who are you replying to here? This may be a Sync beta bug, but it looks like you're arguing with yourself

[–] Gnubyte@lemdit.com 1 points 1 year ago

Sync beta issue. I'm not sure how a block looks but also a user could've just deleted a post entirely.

[–] Wrench@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I have a conservative leaning (they mostly call themselves libertarian) who aren't exactly pro Trump, but anti liberal.

I find it extremely weird how anti Trans they are, considering they're accepting of homosexuals in a "sure, whatever, doesnt bother me" and "might have an acquaintance or two that are gay" kind of way. But the idea of Trans people existing somehow threatens their children really is prevalent in that group.

They grew up in an environment where gay acceptance was pushed hard in school and society, and they seem to be on board because of it. But changing ones own genitalia somehow bypasses all of those lessons.

It's maddening how they fall for this rage bait bullshit that their media pushes.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If they are anti-trans then the "libertarian" schtick is just obfuscation and authoritarian virtue signaling.

[–] Wrench@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Definitely. I think the libertarian branding is more just an excuse to not be blamed for the actions of the republican party. "I didn't vote for them, I voted independent".

But yes, their brand of libertarian is "I should have the freedom to enroll Mt kids in a school that represents my morality, even if that morality is stripping away rights of someone else"

[–] Narauko@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's become so bad that my local/state Libertarian candidates last election were further right than many of the Republicans with almost the same talking points. Who can we protest vote for now that supports gun rights, freedom of/from religion, abortion rights, gay marriage, and targeted/effective limited government that only provides for national defense, interstate commerce, and the common good through a UBI and national healthcare funded with a fair proportional tax? The party has left the actual libertarians behind.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Libertarian party has never been libertarian as far as I'm concerned.

If you keep looking for perfect candidates over a dozen issues, you will never find anyone to vote for. My main concern is that a candidate not be a corporate tool. It's amazing how all the other issues tend to fall in place when a candidate isn't bought.

[–] Narauko@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

110% with you there, but since bribery and graft is legal in the US only corporate tools get selected by the corporate parties. This is further reinforced by keeping the 2 party system entrenched with FPTP voting. I know I'll never get perfect to vote for, but I'd like to at least get an option that would earn a C+ or higher to vote for.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 1 points 1 year ago

I feel exactly the same. However, I've come to believe that the answer isn't in the politicians, it's the people. The people do ultimately have the power to fix it, but most are too ignorant, apathetic, or caught up in conspiracy theories. Local networks and door to door drudge work are probably the best answer we've got.

[–] phillaholic@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

I'm convinced they are terrified of finding a trans woman attractive. From time to time the ones "Ok with Gays" are only ok with the flamboyant stereotype. Find a Traditionally Masculine presenting gay man and they get weird around them too.

[–] Gnubyte@lemdit.com 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

When I hear Libertarian I immediately think of liberals. Which is funny because I'm old enough to remember when the republicans would call people who liked freedom, smoking weed and voting for Bernie a liberal as an insult. You hear "libtard" a whole lot less nowadays because there really wouldn't be much room to distinguish between the two.

[–] turtlepower@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

I can't remember who said it, but:

"Libertarians are just Republicans with bongs."

[–] squiblet@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

They did their absolute best to turn “liberal” into a slur. Definitely on purpose - one of the ways Fox anchors manipulate people, for instance, is to make exaggerated displeased faces and sneering or disdainful tones of voice when they say certain words or discuss certain ideas or people.

Anyway, I think that’s why some people chose to start using the term Progressive.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

men I knew who grew up going to church feel displaced by their traditional view being eroded by things like LGBT, gender identity questions, and changing of the times in general.

Sounds like they have shitty takes and I'm real tired of having to cater to them lest they shoot up another school.

[–] BigNote@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Right, but that's not really the point.

[–] Poseidon@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

On the other side, there is a group of people who will lose faith in the system if he faces no consequences for his actions. Either way the outcome will be a defining moment for the US.

[–] Gnubyte@lemdit.com 5 points 1 year ago

If democratic voters flooded the White House like that, the republicans and MAGAs would be sitting in the exact same position demanding the same thing if not more. I agree with you.

[–] SergeantScar@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So your saying that he shouldn't be charged because it would make his fans sad? So general murders should remain free because incarceration would make their moms sad?

[–] Benjaben@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They never took that position at all, deliberately said so even. Quit with that antagonistic, unnecessarily hostile Reddit-style garbage.

unnecessarily hostile Reddit-style garbage.

I call it big Digg energy.

[–] SergeantScar@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Their second to last paragraph reads like we should lament the fact that all the sweet MAGAs will lose faith in the system... Implying that it would be better if they didn't lose faith in the system by letting their dear leader walk free.

[–] Benjaben@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I really can't understand how you could read it that way, when the last phrase is "or will they simply forget Trump given time". The poster sure seemed to go out of their way to not describe a preferred outcome but just to wonder how this turns out, how his supporters will respond, and how much their response even matters. If they're questioning whether those people's reaction even matters, does that sound like advocating on their behalf?

I understand interpretation of written text is always a little ambiguous, but jumping to "you're saying Trump should go free so his supporters aren't sad?!" - nearly your direct words - just feels like either a very intentional misreading or just the briefest possible look at what the poster wrote. It just isn't there at all and you came across weird and hostile.

[–] squiblet@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Also, the irony is their leader is a guy who basically wants to destroy the system and install himself as dictator. If nothing else, he’s pledged to remove huge amounts of government workers on ideological grounds. Also his advisor and strategist, Bannon, openly says he wants to disrupt and destroy the American system of government. So, either we reject that and deal with them feeling let down, or what, just let them literally wreck the government?

[–] Narauko@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Just wanted to point out that it's never a good thing for any society for a statistically significant percentage of the population to lose faith in the systems underpinning said society and it's social compacts. That's what the CIA did/does to countries to destabilize them, and those never end well.

I'm not claiming there is necessarily a better option in this case, because all authority needs to be kept to a higher standard and punished when they fail, from the town treasurer up to the President. Trippley so for the police, but I won't be holding my breath there either

[–] BigNote@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

No, objectively it doesn't. You are projecting your own strong feelings and aren't being objective at all.

It's a normal human tendency, but you should be aware of it.

[–] BigNote@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Nobody said that, you corn dog.

[–] Metallibus@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Should Trump be convicted, I think it will alienate a group of voters into full disbelief of the existing system.

Good? Our existing systems across the board are entirely fucked. Straight white men generally benefit the most from these systems and have generally continued to turn a blind eye to these problems, as it's easy when you're in the "winning" position. If this somehow wakes them up, maybe we can actually fix something.

[–] Phlogiston@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Also, they are clearly already in full disbelief. This whole situation is because they decided to believe the big lie.

At this point the same arguments for why trump knew he lost also applies to them. The facts are out there but they choose not to believe in them.

[–] Dramachad@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

the reforms they want are total trans death this is not the W you think it is

[–] jecxjo@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago

The problem is that they are still winning and somehow think they are losing. They will not be able to fix anything because their concept of "fixed" is wrong.

[–] Narauko@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately the odds of self reflection and cooperative action to fix the system is probably lower than disenfranchised radicalization leading to further divides and violence. Really hope to be wrong about that, but if 20-30% of the country stop believing in the system altogether, we could be a repeat of Iran in the 70's.

[–] draneceusrex@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a cis male, I swear that I took a totally different perspective from watching media like Boosom Buddies and Mrs. Doubtfire in my youth. I am sure their perspective is not at all totally reinforced by the propaganda apparatus of the right wing media gaslighing for decades about the "culture war". They already felt alienated because they took the lie that Biden stole the election hook, line, and sinker, despite countless court cases being thrown out and FOX News settling to cough up $800m over their lies. They can't come to reality. Justice is independent of their delusions, and should be a nonfactor if Trump is found guilty in a court of law.

[–] squiblet@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

They’ve also mostly gone for the BS about “he’s innocent!” and “it’s political persecution”.

[–] aceshigh@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

men I knew who grew up going to church feel displaced by their traditional view being eroded by things like LGBT, gender identity questions, and changing of the times in general. While the women I know who even often date these men the opposite; they feel more comfortable being accepting of everyone by default.

this makes sense - these men were at the top of the food chain and hearing about equality and seeing change threatens their identity because who are they if they're not at the top? the women on the other hand know what it's like to be marginalized and so are more empathetic and open about other marginalized groups.

i expect the vast majority of those men will not give up/question their identity. they will kick and scream as the world continues to change. tbh, i'm glad i'm not in their shoes. they feel a total loss of control, and there's not a damn thing they can do. emotionally it's a really difficult place to be in.

[–] hglman@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago

If Trump and those voters were not promoting violence, the case would be much stronger to consider them. Once you start openly calling for others to be harmed, you tread into requiring reform before consideration.

[–] KIM_JONG_JUICEBOX@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sounds like they are already alienated.

[–] Gnubyte@lemdit.com 1 points 1 year ago

Hey that guy tried to tell people that aliens were among us. Now we know where and who.

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Well, Trump is "disbelief of the current system" (and in a few cases of reality), so that should fit right in!

[–] joel_feila@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I can confirm most people like the idea of trump. They loke hearing teriffs, border security, the wall, bla bla bla. But explain how regular people pay teriffs and dont listen.

[–] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

What is loke?

Oh baby, don't hurt me

Don't hurt me

No more…

[–] BigNote@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I think it will alienate a group of voters into full disbelief of the existing system.

I'd be even more interested to see how this affects whether or not they vote. A huge problem with the left is that the vast majority of liberals are so heavily disenfranchised (either through design, or simply because of the "my vote doesn't matter" mentality) that they don't vote. If the right suddenly feels the same "My vote doesn't matter" pressure, then it could actually lead to democrats claiming seats that were formerly considered safe for republicans. It could go either way though, where the right suddenly feels more inclined to vote, simply to dig their heels in and prevent things from getting worse for conservatives.