this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2024
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I made the mistake of balking at some particularly unhinged Ukraine/Russia rhetoric offline yesterday and got called a vatnik, a tankie, a Russia lover and I was even suspected of being pro-Israel and apparently a nazbol Aimee Therese follower or something

I'm not even invested in this shit, I just find the insane saber-rattling and warmongering unsettling desolate

When someone tells you Putler's going to invade Estonia, Poland and Finland for Lebensraum next if he's not stopped in Ukraine, just nod your head solemnly

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[–] miz@hexbear.net 73 points 3 months ago (3 children)
[–] tamagotchicowboy@hexbear.net 48 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Depending the crowd usually can feign being a pacifist and then start to bring in counters to their brainworms slowly. Libs love idealism, talk idealism then give them the 'weird internet politics' in small pieces and they'll be nodding their heads.

[–] ChaosMaterialist@hexbear.net 43 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Liberals love to talk down to others, and hate being talked down to. If you can shape your argument such that they can feel some bit of smugness you can reel them in. It works especially well for intellectual liberals if you appeal to their intelligence.

[–] crime@hexbear.net 36 points 3 months ago

Just pretend to agree with them and put words in their mouth. "Yeah, I can't believe that deranged trumpists think {thing that the libs are trying to advocate for}, you're so right that {position you want the lib to hold}."

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 20 points 3 months ago

This is what all my successes in this boil down to

[–] 2Password2Remember@hexbear.net 40 points 3 months ago (3 children)

counterpoint: trueanon rule: be normal

Death to America

[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 22 points 3 months ago

The “normal” in America is incoherent potato in a sack with a random grab bag of loosely held opinions on a bullet point list of “issues”.

Instead of trying to be a rational debater building on first principles and being boring as hell and caught up in the liberal gishgallop, you should instead find their language and speak it - insofar as it aligns with communism in any way.

Most people aren’t “normal” is the boring CNN way. Most people have a few “extreme” beliefs that are incoherent when held with their other opinions.

If I’m talking to a libertarianesque boomer white guy with a few conspiracisms I will talk about NSA, CIA coups, US deep state, corporate lobbying and control, democracy being incompatible with large capital accumulation, wars, etc.

If I’m talking to my social liberal Egyptian Muslim aunt I will focus on US destroying Arab nationalism, Nasser, Israel, the destruction of the progressive nations throughout the Middle East and backing of extremist jihadist forces that are all complete infidel mercenaries posing as devout Islamists - fake Muslims.

Don’t “be normal”. Read the room and speak in their language, always bring the point back to anti-imperialism, revolutionary defeatism & class war. These concerns override all others when speaking of politics in the imperialist west, however you can twist the potatoes logic against them towards these aims is how you should approach it

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If I had to choose between listening to the revolutionary hero Mao Zedong or the attention-seeking podcaster who sometimes does good interviews Brace Belden . . .

[–] gay_king_prince_charles@hexbear.net 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Start slow and from believable axioms and make small steps so your logic is understandable

[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Nah jump right to CIA operation timber sycamore under Obama and show them that American foreign policy is the source of the most evil on Earth, they are ISIS, Democrat or GOP they will be Nazis to the 80% of world that resides in the “jungle”.

[–] gay_king_prince_charles@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Are you trying to convince people or show how correct you are? Because if you start with timber sycamore, people will just discredit you and stop listening but it you go from the more economic side up, people will understand you.

[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No they won’t, documented specifics is how many people understand reality. It is indisputable

[–] gay_king_prince_charles@hexbear.net 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

There will just ignore it and write you off as crazy. People ignore specifics and anecdotes all the time.

[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

99% of Americans are cranks. Crankery is generally a plus among most working class people in terms of fitting in. The "normal" CNN watching drone is a myth. Joe Rogan is more popular than The Daily. More people get their news from random parasocial YouTubers than establishment news sources.