this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2024
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this is an experiment i have done for the last week or something. no upbear counters, no upbear buttons, just sorted by new or new comments. it has been very nice, but i know that inevitably somebody is gonna feel like i'm being snooty to them for not upbearing them. its very nice that people are taking time out of their day to engage with me on the net, and i always feel that when i get the notifications, but i think some of them are gonna take it personally if i keep this crap up

the question: how important is this little courtesy to you???? does it bother you if you dont get upvotes when you are talking to people?

thank you for your replies but know that for responding to this survey i cannot offer any remuneration. you are encouraged to not upbear this post or even report it if you see any flagrant rulebreaks

just for context i have done this experiment to see if it feels better and if i feel less obsessive about innernet points/see if i make better comments without the motivation (turns out this one is a no)

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[–] tocopherol@hexbear.net 32 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I like to upbear every comment I see because I just appreciate everyone who posts here, unless what they are saying is some bullshit or overly rude

[–] gueybana@hexbear.net 16 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, unless the reply is attacking me personally or they’re just being douchey, I’ll upvote anything. And i’ll do it again

[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 12 points 2 months ago

I’ll upvote anything. And i’ll do it again

this is the voter fraud they keep telling me about!!!!!!

[–] Finger@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago

no more half measures walter

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[–] un_mask_me@hexbear.net 22 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I upbear to show I'm here lurking even when I don't comment

[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 13 points 2 months ago

i see ya. thank you stalin-approval

[–] someone@hexbear.net 18 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I usually upvote anything that contributes to a conversation.

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[–] autism_2@hexbear.net 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If I get no upbear I self crit and think about how I can be funnier

[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)
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[–] rootsbreadandmakka@hexbear.net 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I always upvote everyone I respond to and everyone who responds to me, even if I'm in an argument. To me it's just common courtesy. I get offended if I'm arguing with someone and they don't upvote me - it's what turns the argument from a friendly exchange of opinions to one of aggression. I usually remove my upvotes from their comments at that time.

And of course I don't upvote wreckers when responding to them.

edit: if I'm in an argument and I'm trying to be aggressive, that's when I'll actually not upvote a post I'm responding to - but I'm usually not trying to be aggressive, especially not on this site

[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

this is the kind of thing that makes me question whether or not i am in the right spot. like i personally feel like its a sort of system that causes a lot of people (like me) to get too caught up with how many points they get, but then i don't want to abstain from that system and make people feel bad. feels like a lose/lose - obviously that's just my perspective and not everyone feels that way

[–] rootsbreadandmakka@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

the way I see it - "upvotes," "likes" etc are just a digital form of the verbal validation someone would get irl. Like if you told a joke, people would laugh, smile. If you made a good point, people would nod, say "uh huh" or something. A thread would look pretty weird if someone wrote something funny and there were like 30 people underneath going "lol" and "haha" so that validation is replaced with likes and upvotes.

People absolutely get too caught up with how many internet points they get, but idk I don't see that obsession as fundamentally different from being obsessed with social acceptance in general. We all have a desire to fit in and idk, I think it has the same root causes as someone who gets too caught up with trying to be funny irl or something. It's something we all have to work on, whether online or irl.

[–] QuietCupcake@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

GOOD post. Sums up what I was thinking too. Since in this medium we don't have the kind of emotional ques we would normally get as a response in group conversations, upvotes serve that purpose. It is unfortunate that upvotes are so... quantifiable in a way that nods and grunts of approval are not, which really exacerbates any problematic obsession someone might have with getting positive responses. But that does not mean we should scrap the whole method we have for providing that kind of light social approval that is necessary to some extent to have real communal (as opposed to one on one) discussions.

I also think that what you said touches on something that seems to often get forgotten in discussions about the validity of upvotes: They're not just fir the person receiving them. Upvoting someone gives me a sense that I am participating even if I don't want to say anything. I very often feel like I have nothing really worth adding since much smarter people here say it better than I could, but upvoting others I agree with gives me, as a shy lurker, a way to feel like I'm genuinely part of the community too. People talk about the dopamine hit they get when they see they got upvoted. Well I get a dopamine hit by upvoting others and knowing they got a dopamine hit because of my doing so.

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[–] PointAndClique@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

A thread would look pretty weird if someone wrote something funny and there were like 30 people underneath going "lol" and "haha" so that validation is replaced with likes and upvotes.

:porque-no-los-dos:

Upvote and comment lol or emoji

[–] rootsbreadandmakka@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

idk I think things would get cluttered if everyone was commenting an emoji under every single post they enjoyed.

[–] PointAndClique@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Ik, I'm mostly joking but fwiw I have noticed here that people do tend to leave reaction emojis under threads more frequently than elsewhere on the lemmyverse and * spits * r*ddit thank goodness. I kinda like it

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[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)
[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago

that's why this is so important sadness

[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

You know, there is no such thing as "society." There are individual comments, and there are posts.

[–] glans@hexbear.net 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

i know that inevitably somebody is gonna feel like i'm being snooty to them for not upbearing them

how can someone even know that?

and what is people's expectations? that every single friend of their upvote every single little thing they do on the internet? is this whole website so insecure?

are people somehow tracking each individual other user's responses, tallying this, and judging the other users by it?

doesn't everyone else know that sometimes they will say things that other people are indifferent to, or that they even disagree with? even those people you generally like? isn't that a known fact of social interactions?


I think if you don't want to upvote, you shouldn't. You do you.

Personally I like the voting system. It serves as an approximation of the collective opinion. On niche forums especially, I think the collective opinion is worthy of respect even when I disagree.

how important is this little courtesy to you???? does it bother you if you dont get upvotes when you are talking to people?

well tbh I don't think it's a courtesy, I think it is a gauge of the collective opinions. Sometimes if I make a comment or post I think will be contentious I look later to see "how it did". Not cause I want to know how kindly the readers were feeling, but to know if I understand the opinions of the forum correctly.

One thing I have learned, from various different forums, subreddits, and lemmies, is that loooong rambling comments like this one consistently "do" very badly because they are too boring to read. But yet I make them anyway.

[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

well tbh I don't think it's a courtesy, I think it is a gauge of the collective opinions. Sometimes if I make a comment or post I think will be contentious I look later to see "how it did". Not cause I want to know how kindly the readers were feeling, but to know if I understand the opinions of the forum correctly.

I do genuinely like this facet of the feature. it becomes weird particularly when it becomes a comment chain or conversation between two people, but I do understand and agree with the value. The funny thing is that while I might be asking about this right now, when I first showed up to Hexbear it was my barometer to make sure I wasn't completely wasting my time/irritating everyone

e: fwiw i enjoyed your comment and read the whole thing

[–] chickentendrils@hexbear.net 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I upbear, I sort by new, I never look at notifications but I'll often check back on threads in the same day

[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

wow its so hard to imagine not looking at notifications. in my experience its one of the most fun parts but i bet if people are on apps or something they might form a different perception with them

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

its a similar amount of let-down to when I throw somthing in a trash can from 10 feet and miss and have to go pick it up

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 11 points 2 months ago

but for real, at least when it comes to my own posts I upvote every comment so I know which ones I've read already

[–] OgdenTO@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago

I upbeanis most posts I read and any comment that I engage with, or that replies to one of my comments or posts. I like to know that at least someone is reading what I'm writing over here. If I write a comment or post and it stays at 1 upbeanis, what's the point? Is anyone even reading it?

[–] Adkml@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Unironically its gonna hurt the site because now upvoting is gonna be used as a personal endorsement by anybody you're arguing with so people will upvote less stuff and continue the declining engagement on the site.

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Why should engagement be the goal? As long as people who wanna interact can interact with other folks on here it shouldn't be a problem. Social media shouldn't be designed to maximize engagement, that's how it becomes addictive.

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[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

in terms of engagement, comments are supposed to weigh heavier than upvotes. i know thats an engagement/algorithm topic rather than 'philosophical' engagement but

[–] PointAndClique@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I don't like upvotes at all. When I last discussed it I got replies saying 'oh your instance allows you to hide upvotes' but 1) that's not my point and 2) it doesn't work (you can hover over the post to see the counts). Yes i welcome removing downvotes is critical in creating this sites culture but tory I invite the mods to go further and consider the postive, pro-social benefits of removing votes entirely

[–] bubbalu@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I used to post 'good post.' under posts that I liked a lot.

[–] PointAndClique@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I took the sage advice of kristina who said if you have nothing else to say just say lmao

[–] bubbalu@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

literally the most smoke'n'mirrors phrase of all time.

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[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

we need to start a club or something. maybe we should all manually add signatures to every single one of our posts. it might bring the wrong energy but maybe the wrong energy is exactly what people need thonk


Why upbear when you can comment something nice? Join the No Vote club today

[–] PointAndClique@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I'm on board with this. If we could have banner length custom images in the sig too that'd be sick


Death to America

[–] Kolibri@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] PointAndClique@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Signature images really were the bateman-business-card of the 00s, early 10s internet

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[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

ironically i have been writing in this thread from a web browser that doesnt have the buttons ublock'd and I can feel myself becoming a stronger no-voter when i see posts this quality and don't upvote instinctively

[–] miz@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

uhh maybe you get validation in other areas of your life but not all of us are so lucky

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'll never be apologetic in wanting to get rid of upvotes.

[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

you are a strong leader

[–] CarbonScored@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

This is the place I'm going to admit my weird habit:

Assuming everyone seems to be talking in good faith, I find it sad when a reply has more upbears than the original comment. It feels sad to me that someone has such a ringing lack of endorsement, where everyone has to have read their comment, and someone elses, and vote the elses. So I'll like, selectively upbear or un-upbear certain comments to make things more equal. This even includes my own comments, I remove the default self-upbear sometimes.

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[–] Des@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

i mean to upbear anything i like, find funny, agree with, etc. i often forget, ADHD and all

i do always upbear if i reply/respond to a comment, engage with a post, or anyone that replies to me unless they are a lib or chud

wish we had little stickers or simplified one-click response emojis or something instead. something less reddit-brained. maybe a little "x usename liked this!"

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[–] Chronicon@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

Its fine, do what you want, its not important and often not even noticed

[–] Kolibri@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I don't think it's bad. I have scores turned off because internet points just mess with me no matter what, and I kind of just dislike the entire concept at this point.

[–] 12022081631@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

yeah I think my feelings are comparable

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[–] NPa@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I just upbeared your comment.

FAQ

What does this mean?

The amount of upbears (points) on your comment and Hexbear account has increased by one.

Why did you do this?

There are several reasons I may deem a comment to be worthy of positive or neutral karma. These include, but are not limited to:

  • Rudeness towards Redditors,

  • Spreading Marxist Theory,

  • Sarcasm not correctly flagged with a /s.

Am I in good standing with the Hexbear?

No - not yet. But you should continue making comments like this in the future. Otherwise I will be forced to retract my upbear, which may put your commenting and posting privileges in jeopardy.

I don't believe my comment deserved an upbear. Can you un-upbear it?

Sure, mistakes happen. But only in exceedingly rare circumstances will I undo an upbear. If you would like to issue an appeal, shoot me a private message explaining what I got wrong. I tend to respond to Hexbear PMs within several minutes. Do note, however, that over 99.9% of upbear appeals are rejected, and yours is likely no exception.

How can I make this happen again in the future?

Accept the upbear and move on. But learn from this: your behavior will be tolerated on hexbear.net. I will continue to issue upbears until you fuck up your posting. Remember: Hexbear is privilege, not a right.

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[–] D61@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

May, Mao will shine on you forever if you never fall so low as to upbear again. mao-shining

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