this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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MODERATORS
 

Hello comrades. In the interest of upholding our code of conduct - specifically, rule 1 (providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all) - we felt it appropriate to make a statement regarding the lionization of Luigi Mangione, the alleged United Healthcare CEO shooter, also known as "The Adjuster."

In the day or so since the alleged shooter's identity became known to the public, the whole world has had the chance to dig though his personal social media accounts and attempt to decipher his political ideology and motives. What we have learned may shock you. He is not one of us. He is a "typical" American with largely incoherent, and in many cases reactionary politics. For the most part, what is remarkable about the man himself is that he chose to take out his anger on a genuine enemy of the proletariat, instead of an elementary school.

This is a situation where the art must be separated from the artist. We do not condemn the attack, but as a role model, Luigi Mangione falls short. We do not expect perfection from revolutionary figures either, but we expect a modicum of revolutionary discipline. We expect them not simply to identify an unpopular element of society hitler-detector , but to clearly illuminate the causes of oppression and the means by which they are overcome. When we canonize revolutionary figures, we are holding them up as an example to be followed.

This is where things come back to rule 1. Mangione has a long social media history bearing a spectrum of reactionary viewpoints, and interacting positively with many powerful reactionary figures. While some commenters have referred to this as "nothing malicious," by lionizing this man we effectively deem this behavior acceptable, or at the very least, safe to ignore. This is the type of tailism which opens the door to making a space unsafe for marginalized people.

We're going to be more strict on moderating posts which do little more than lionize the shooter. There is plenty to be said about the unfolding events, the remarkably positive public reaction, how public reactions to "propaganda of the deed" may have changed since the historical epoch of its conception (and how the strategic hazards might not have), and many other aspects of the news without canonizing this man specifically. We can still dance on the graves of our enemies and celebrate their rediscovered fear and vulnerability without the vulgar revisionism needed to pretend this man is some sort of example of Marxist or Anarchist practice.

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[–] mkultrawide@hexbear.net 65 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

Did you guys check if yamagami had good politics before you officially lionized him on Hexbear? Or are you just navel gazing because Luigi is American?

[–] DeathToBritain@hexbear.net 47 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Dorner, doohickey guy, Teddy K, even arguably Aaron Bushnell being a US service member who directly aided in US imperialism, all had shitty takes and were adventurists who didn't directly overthrow the system as is through a systemic mass movement based around the materialist principles of Marxism. I do not care about Luigi that much one way or the other than it's funny an Italian guy blasted an evil mfer in the middle of NYC. it's just the flavour of the month news story and the mods demanding you post correctly about it with very little actual explaination of what that means leading to week long bans over not being the principled reading club of the vanguard again. one mans taillism is anothers propaganda of the deed, and discussion around that should be allowed as it is with the aformentioned people we literally have emojis of.

[–] mkultrawide@hexbear.net 37 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I have no problem with people going around saying this guy isn't Lenin or whatever, they are right. I just don't think this post was warranted, and if anything, its going to prolong this whole thing. Also there is of course the lack of consistency on who gets to be "lionized".

[–] DeathToBritain@hexbear.net 33 points 6 days ago (1 children)

for sure. a mod statement with mass action blows it way out of proportion. genuinely just wait like a month and few people will talk about this at all

[–] ClathrateG@hexbear.net 18 points 6 days ago

Evidently the fedmins need to shut down the discussion quicker than that

[–] imogen_underscore@hexbear.net 25 points 6 days ago (1 children)

just for what its worth nobody got a week long ban for luigiposting, there was one handed out for hostility and DM harassment.

[–] DeathToBritain@hexbear.net 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)

ok that's fair, I hadn't learnt about that. thank you for informing me! yeah that is a justified mod action

[–] Aradina@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 days ago

Maybe you should edit your comment to remove the claim comrade

[–] john_brown@hexbear.net 50 points 6 days ago (1 children)

assad-must-stay

who-must-go

must-go

assad-pogger

It's almost like there's no consistency in the moderation and scolding

[–] glimmer_twin@hexbear.net 40 points 6 days ago

Mod responses on hexbear seem to be entirely based on which mods are awake and active in chat at any given time lol

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[–] grandepequeno@hexbear.net 38 points 6 days ago (4 children)

The fact that if the guy had been a leftist this whole debate would vanish is all one needs to know if this is actually a debate worth BANNING PEOPLE OVER, shove the hammer up your asses you're actively making the site worse far more than whatever lionizing is happening

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[–] 2Password2Remember@hexbear.net 35 points 6 days ago

511 comments

what-the-hell

Death to America

[–] VARXBLE@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 6 days ago

Kinda unrelated, but the kind of person who cries about their post being removed for lionizing a problematic guy with paragraphs of justifation for why it being removed was an affront to all true leftists everywhere and how this site is literally 1984, are the same kind of people who seem to think their opinions are the most valid of opinions and people NEED TO see them, and the real injustice is the censoring of their enlightened takes.

Some of y'all need to separate the ego from your posting.

[–] Tommasi@hexbear.net 28 points 6 days ago

Good take overall. A lot of people (myself included) wanted this guy to be some sort of leftist hero. Even though it sucks to find out he was just an average american dude with kinda shitty beliefs, we should accept reality as it is and not try to pretend otherwise. We can think of it as a small victory that even someone who's seemingly not very class conscious could be driven to an action like this. That, along with the amount of support this got, still makes me feel much more hopeful about building a left-wing movement in the west than I was a couple weeks ago.

For the most part, what is remarkable about the man himself is that he chose to take out his anger on a genuine enemy of the proletariat, instead of an elementary school.

This part I find maybe a bit tasteless. Even though I agree we shouldn't glorify the guy, I do think he deserves some sympathy for what he did and the undoubtedly awful punishment he's going to be sentenced to, and I don't think it's fair to compare him to a school shooter. I don't think anything indicates that he's the kind of person capable of something like that.

[–] ClathrateG@hexbear.net 20 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Fuck you fed ass admins

How many figures that are praised here have problematic views? how many of those have those have a pinned post about their lionisation??

Luigi Mangione is a Hero, Unequivocally

[–] ClathrateG@hexbear.net 19 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Literally following the CIA playbook on how to wreck nascent orgs by quashing any revolutionary potential with irrelevant discussions designed to waste time and sow discord

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 30 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

This website has no revolutionary potential

its a website

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[–] iie@hexbear.net 12 points 6 days ago (2 children)

We praise Stalin despite his homophobia, we praise Hamas, but that's Stalin and Hamas. A single white adventurist in the imperial core, in 2024, who retweets posts mocking trans people, we don't need to hero worship this guy among ourselves, at that point it starts to feel like we're trivializing his reactionary views. When you're out recruiting, say whatever you want, but on hexbear, for the sake of other people's comfort, try to have some nuance. That's all this mod post is asking for.

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[–] DengistDonnieDarko@hexbear.net 18 points 6 days ago (2 children)

based principled leftist dorner

based principled leftist yamagami

[–] PorkrollPosadist@hexbear.net 19 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Dorner / the guy who killed Shinzo were memed. Luigi was memed. But what we didn't have with the first two was this tendency to try to latch on to them and claim them, and combat other factions trying to do the same. The takeaway should be that vigilante justice against the ruling class is apparently more popular than ever. When we are getting into the weeds trying to fight over whether an individual spontaneous event was done by our guy or not, it is pure navel gazing. We aren't doing shit. We are so fucking deep in the couch, just spectating.

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[–] flugolem@hexbear.net 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)

when are we just gonna make a struggle session mega. if we can have a news mega, we can have a struggle session mega imo

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[–] CrawlMarks@hexbear.net 23 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

I have been struggling to think of how to say this constructively but it feels wrong to be mad a guy that did intresting and good things for posting badly. Like, we all post badly. That is why we are here. I think I have seen this emotion in the comments but I am not sure it ever worked out. We have an nearly unprecedented moment of clas solidarity and good vibes so it feels real bad to be upsets about posts at the moment. Especially as the posts don't seem relevant to the moment. So while the take is probably correct I haven't seen any discourse where it would be relevant or good to actually point it out. When someone says how cool the Luigi guy was doing a cool bit if asventurism it doesn't feel relevant to put him down for stuff not in his manifesto. Posting is not praxis. So there is a lower bound for how much posting can be the opposite of praxis. I feel like that is divisive and self defeating in a moment when we should be trying to do something with all this revolutionary energy. We appear to have half a thousand posts of people trying a dialectic process here but I am not sure we are approaching synthesis

[–] buh@hexbear.net 20 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

Especially as the posts don't seem relevant to the moment.

Right, like even among conservatives the discourse isn’t so much “this was based because he’s an epic bacon STEMlord like us”, it’s “I don’t feel bad for Brian after all the shit health insurance companies have put me through”

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[–] TheaJo@hexbear.net 15 points 6 days ago

that is, if he's the adjuster

[–] sempersigh@hexbear.net 15 points 6 days ago
[–] Parsani@hexbear.net 14 points 6 days ago (2 children)
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[–] Blottergrass@hexbear.net 13 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Do you guys have any serious plan to do anything ever?

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What are you expecting them to do exactly?

[–] ClathrateG@hexbear.net 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 15 points 6 days ago (7 children)

serious plan

Not be wrecking feds?

Are we being serious or flippant, here? I'm not sassing you I just didn't know what you meant and that's not very descriptive

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[–] this_dude_eating_beans@hexbear.net 16 points 6 days ago (3 children)

I have never seen the word tailism in my life until this thread.

[–] glimmer_twin@hexbear.net 25 points 6 days ago

It’s also not applicable here. It’s just the mods throwing in a leftist sounding word to justify their position post-hoc.

[–] afters@hexbear.net 24 points 6 days ago

Maybe it’s time to learn something

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[–] Commiejones@hexbear.net 9 points 6 days ago

The only correct response is to deny that Luigi is The Guy. Fuck Luigi. God damned fed boot licking scumbag is willing to give up his life for their lie and I hope he has the worst possible time in prison. The 3 letter agencies have created patsies before. They always lie and plant evidence. Luigi is not the guy, its an unfalsifiable Orthodoxy embrace it.

The real story that the feds wont tell you.The Guy was a fucking hero. He killed that ceo scum. He hopped on his bike, rode into central park, Changed his clothes and walked out of there looking like a tourist. He caught a plane home. He went back to his lover's grave and told them he avenged them. He sat down and felt more alone than even the moment they had died from an illness that should have been covered by their insurance. He wept for hours for because he now knew there was nothing to hold his lover to this world but he was wrong.

He was about to pass out from the exhaustion of weeping. Unbidden came the memory of their home, a "fixer-uper," the only thing they "could" afford, it was gone, eaten by medical bills, in its place there was a 4 story neo-brutalist apartment building. The whole neighbourhood was gone. He remembered the day they finally took possession of the house. He carried them over the threshold half ironically but half as a desperate plea for mercy from the reactionary ideals they offended. He set them down to the sound of creaking floorboards. "there is still so much to do." Their voice had spoken these words softly with wearied resolution at the time but now they rang in his head with defiance and anger, "THERE IS STILL SO MUCH TO DO" The Guy did have more to do. He had gotten away with it this time. The one most responsible for their death was dead but there were more CEOs and and entire world geared towards making more CEOs to replace any that might fall.

He looked down at his hands they were red with blood. He blinked and another drop of blood fell from his eyes. Yes He would soak his hands in blood, the blood of the capitalists will fall like rain. The tears of all the exploited and cheated masses would be matched by the blood of the rich. but first he would need to organize likeminded people, he needed to read more theory, he needed to let his dead love go and devote himself fully to the revolution.

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