this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2024
768 points (98.9% liked)

News

23648 readers
2410 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 6 points 10 hours ago

Can confirm. He didn't do nuthin

[–] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 17 points 22 hours ago

Maybe the lack of quick access to life saving resources, procedures and experts immediately after the shooting, aka 'healthcare', was what actually killed him?

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 91 points 1 day ago (9 children)

This makes me believe it really wasn't him. If he actually wrote a manifesto, he'd have declared himself guilty, taken credit, and done a speech about how he was now a martyr for the cause.

If he's sticking to his story, then I believe him. They couldn't find the real killer so they just went with whoever "fit the description", as per usual.

[–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 3 points 10 hours ago

I tend to think it's because they charged him as a terrorist. I assume it's a different law in which case he might be able to prove it's not terrorism.

[–] arc@lemm.ee 5 points 13 hours ago

Of course it was him. That doesn't mean from a legal perspective he is best served by pleading guilty. Pleading not guilty also means he'll get a jury trial and his lawyers can introduce evidence that embarrasses private health insurance providers, or proves his state of mind, or otherwise casts doubt.

[–] Hlodwig@lemmy.world 4 points 15 hours ago

Its obviously NOT him, footage from the murder shows thin eyebrows, white skin (like Irish white) and way smaller dude than Luigi... I still cant understand that people still believe Luigi could be the killer...

[–] FJW@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

That’s now how it works: In the US “justice”-system there are only extremely limited cases where it makes sense to plead non-guilty, because it pretty much just means that you skip the trial and get sentenced directly. Especially if you want Jury-nullification, you have to plead non-guilty so that the Jury can find you innocent despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[–] Rakonat@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

What overwhelming evidence in this case? The evidence made public definitely seems to imply he's not the one who shot the CEO.

Why would a person take such a carefully planned route through the city to Central Park, change clothes and dump their bag, only to keep their gun, fake IDs and hand written manifesto/confession on their person three days later while eating lunch at a restaurant? If Luigi was the shooter and looking to take credit as what has been released of the manifesto implies, why hide out for three days instead of publicly turning themselves in after informing the press so it's recorded and likely televised?

[–] Zron@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Wouldn’t be surprised if he was in New York on some legitimate business, they caught him on camera at a Starbucks near the murder, blasted his image all over the news and social media, and just waited for someone to call.

Then when they got the call, they grabbed a backpack with “evidence” and claimed he had it on him when they arrested him.

Did anyone believe that he was wondering around for 3 days with a bag that was holding the murder weapon, fake IDs, and a hand written manifesto? He ditched another bag, and escaped on an e-bike. Why would he then run around for three days with the rest of the evidence.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 9 points 1 day ago

Either he is the dumbest man alive, or the police really wanted to just go with the first guy who fit the description knowing that they'll look like heroes to their corporate overlords, and that if another guy bites the dust they can just say it was a copycat.

[–] wildcardology@lemmy.world 46 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Innocent until proven guilty. It's the government's job to prove him guilty. He doesn't have to help them.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 11 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

If Innocent until proven guilty, why the fuck do we lock people up to await their court date?

[–] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 9 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

Because it makes money, and a splash of long standing racism

[–] iamtrashman1312@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

You can plug this answer verbatim into almost any "why does the US do this bad thing?"

[–] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Personally, I am sad that is all it takes for you to believe something. Businesses, media, governments, and more are trying to make people believe things (unrelated to luigi) that aren't true. You need to raise the bar, not lower it. Maybe you want to believe he didn't do it, but I hope you don't actually believe that based on so little information.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] sunbytes@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

I mean, if he can away with it while not undermining his original intentions, why not do it?

There's various ways he could go unpunished that would prevent a retrial and so he'd then be set up to be influential in some kind of healthcare reform.

Heavy on the cope though.

[–] morrowind@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That doesn't explain why he keeps mogging the camera, or what he yells to the journalist in that one video.

I don't know if it's him, but I think whoever it is, is just following their lawyer's advice, not trying to be a martyr

[–] DeLacue@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The thing is they've actually made a mistake charging him with terrorism. It is surprisingly narrowly defined so even without a sympathetic jury he might get a not guilty verdict for it and it weakens the whole case against him. But most of all by including it they've made all his intentions and politics central issues to the case. All the evidence and his statements about this will have to go into the public record. If he had pleaded guilty that wouldn't happen nor would there be a chance for jury annulment. Pleading not guilty is simply the smarter option to take.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 3 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

A jury could just find him not guilty on that one count but guilty on all others. Not seeing how it weakens any other part of the case.

[–] sukhmel@programming.dev 4 points 14 hours ago

I think it's along the lines of 'if the prosecution presented an accusation that is obviously false, how well standing is the rest of the case'

If I were in the jury, a case that is part bullshit would definitely compel me to think again about how well the investigation was done

[–] 8000gnat@reddthat.com 6 points 1 day ago

Hope this is true

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 154 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Its fucked up the news is acting like Sandy Hook wasn't a decade ago. All this guy is accused of is shooting a CEO.

[–] papertowels@mander.xyz 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

This is the disheartening part that highlights the class divide. Shootings of common folk barely make the news where I'm from. How much have taxpayers paid for this so far? Justice clearly isn't being applied equally.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't really think it's a conspiracy of sorts, it's just news media being news media. They want the most clicks, doesn't matter much what for or what the consequences are. it's the same reason why trump yet again got so extremely much news coverage. Had news organizations all decided not to waste their time with trump, we wouldn't have his presidency now. In reality though, everyone and their mother had to talk about trump, it was trump before and after and now we have yet again to deal with this fuck face for a other 4 years. I know that news media aren't the only ones to blame, theyight now even be the worst, but he'll do they have a large share of the blame for all the shit that had been happening lately, and it's all about the clicks, it's all about the money

[–] ChogChog@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago

Like you mentioned, it’s the biased part of the business which wrestles with journalistic integrity.

ie. Return on Investment, special access or limited access compared to your competitors depending how your piece is written.

It’s not entirely surprising when journalistic integrity is at odds with the finances that fund said journalism, but it most certainly can be disappointing.

[–] SuiXi3D@fedia.io 54 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Maybe if it happens enough, we can normalize billionaire CEO murder as well.

[–] some_designer_dude@lemmy.world 47 points 1 day ago (1 children)

CEO or not, billionaires gotta go

[–] tdawg@lemmy.world 3 points 21 hours ago

Ya you don't have to be a CEO to hold massive investments across the board

[–] Woht24@lemmy.world 46 points 2 days ago (3 children)

The problem here is the frequency of the crimes. If CEOs were being shot on a weekly to bi weekly average in groups of 3 or more, this crime would become one of the many others the American media wash over.

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 34 points 2 days ago (2 children)

That sounds like a challenge

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world 56 points 2 days ago

Sandy hook was instead normalized, and happens multiple times over across the nation annually. Pew pew ‘muricuh

[–] alquicksilver@lemmy.world 315 points 2 days ago (10 children)

Speaking to CBS, the BBC's US partner, on Sunday, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said that the online rhetoric has been "extraordinarily alarming".

"It speaks of what is really bubbling here in this country," he said. "And unfortunately we see that manifested in violence, the domestic violent extremism that exists."

Did he care about the domestic violent extremism before it started to affect the wealthy? What about the domestic terrorists who go after the queer community, POC communities, women, doctors providing reproductive healthcare...the list goes on.

Violent extremism isn't new here. It's just that this one affects people with power.

[–] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 86 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

You’ve got far right militias blowing up America’s electric grid infrastructure, threatening politicians, having standoffs on federal property, and patrolling hurricane impacted areas trying to capture federal employees that are there helping, and I’ve never heard those people referred to as terrorists.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 102 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

Yeah, the rules of society say they won and they think all the losers beneath them just have to accept it. The social order and status quo are great for them. That something would violate it is extremely disturbing to them and provokes an emotional response.

I think that's why they seem to be so clumsily overreacting to the murder. Maybe it's working in segments of the population I don't see, but everyone in my social network is either outright happy it happened or at least get why it happened. Some will have perfunctory "murder is wrong" statements, but the thrust is about what a corrupt and evil business health insurance is. That's all the way up to the boomers and crosses political boundaries.

Things like the perp walk, excessive charges, and corporate comedy pretending everyone just thinks Mangione is a bad guy just highlights the us vs. them of class war rather than trying to somehow quell or redirect the bubbling unrest. I think they're doing this because their peers and masters are emotionally demanding a visible and recognizable show of power and obedience. If they knew what was good for them they'd be triple-timing it to make some token effort to reform the system, but even a token effort in response to the killing of a rich person would infuriate them, so clumsy performances it is.

[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 56 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

When my usually "civil" boomer dad said he gets why he did it and wasn't outright condemning him, I knew the ruling class wasn't in control of the narrative as per usual this time.

[–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 49 points 2 days ago (3 children)

My 75 year old Canadian aunt laughed when I showed her this

Everyone hates these people except the people who want to be these people.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 224 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (17 children)

His lawyer made a great point about how law enforcement and the media threw "alleged" out the window and just insisted he did it...

What's disappointing is it's apparently working because when I do see and "allegedly" thrown in, people are down voting it like it's a conspiracy.

People always want to act like propaganda can't effect them, but the whole country immediately accepted that he was guilty because of a tiny change in reporting from the norm.

But especially with the wrinkle that someone brought it up to the McD's worker and then she snitched....

I think the cop's have a reason they're sure, it's just they got that reason illegally thru means we're not supposed to know they have. Which explains a lot of shit.

[–] ramble81@lemm.ee 87 points 2 days ago (26 children)

Frankly I still question if he’s a lookalike scapegoat so the police can save face and try to put it to bed. May also explain the odd “planted” evidence that is being mentioned.

load more comments (26 replies)
load more comments (16 replies)
[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 119 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The terrorism "charges" are laughably flimsy and clearly contrived. Trumped Up, you might say.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 28 points 1 day ago

The terrorism charge is absolutely the dumbest thing they did. Now it's on them to prove it was more than just murder.

load more comments
view more: next ›