askchapo

Don't give money to your landlord or corporations they are just going to spend it on rentier capitalism

"Oh, they're going to just spend it on drugs." "Yeah that's what I was going to do with it, who am I to judge?"

I make this argument all the time, usually tailored to the vices of myself/whoever I'm talking to. If I was just gonna spend that on a pack of beer, an oz of weed, some fast food, some electronic toy or video game, who am I to say that those less fortunate should have no respite from reality while I drown in vices? it's fucking bullshit moralizing that should have no input on whether or not you give to the needy

I crave a little something when I have a slightly rough day, most people do, so who is more deserving of drugs than people who have to sleep on the sidewalk?

Yeah that's what I was going to do with it, who am I to judge?

I like this because it's not just true but also so out of pocket they don't know how to respond, but there's 2 more serious arguments against "tHeY'Re gOiNg tO JuSt sPeNd iT On dRuGs"

1. being homeless is so physically and mentally stressful that turning to drugs is the only way to make it tolerable for many. it's not just not having money for food, it's worrying you might get robbed/assaulted/arrested while sleeping (or at any time really), and constantly feeling like shit because you never get decent sleep from all the noise and elements and having to sleep on the ground, as well as not being able to maintain hygiene. any one of these would drive a normal person nuts, but homeless people have to deal with all of it 24/7.

2. drug withdrawal can be genuinely lethal, so even though it's true that it's bad for that person to continue using drugs, abruptly stopping might end worse for them.

Tax payer money gets spent in the trillions for Israel to drop bombs on homeless people and that's fine but someone begging for $10 to buy a pack of smokes is a bridge too far.

"Oh, they're going to just spend it on drugs." "Yeah that's what I was going to do with it[.]"

lmao i love saying this, people always get a kick out of it and it's 100% true

its one of those things that sounds plausible if you're not familiar with homeless people and don't think about it too hard but falls apart on any scrutiny.

I guess the idea is that a parent is both garnering more sympathy and covering more ground by having their kids beg with them? but the kids are probably getting food and an education at school if they do go, and the state will at least try to come down on the parents if they don't, so it really doesn't make any sense, even if you believe homeless people would do that which, no, they aren't greedy monsters that don't care about their kids or anything else but money, that's capitalists...

I mean children begging with their parents is unfortunately a more common sight than it should be where I live (South Africa), it is something that you will see in poorer countries. It's more that the kids don't currently attend school , instead of being withdrawn from school. As of 2021, nearly 1 million kids were not in school over here.

A lot of it is tied in to this old calvinist (of course) idea of deserving vs undeserving poor. "Undeserving poor" are poor bc they're lazy, shiftless, blah blah blah, with the underlying theological brainworms being that god doesn't love them. Deserving poor have merely been temporarily laid low by circumstance and extending them a helping hand they will return to being a productive member of society!

We've all seen the outcome - plus a lot of "leopards ate my face"/" i'm the only person who deserves help everyone else is a lying cheat"

There are places where kids from loathed demographics - Roma, Dalits, "low caste" or "untouchable" people, are systematically excluded from education. Or, worse, places where the state may kidnap your kids while they're at school becuase [facism noises]. Boarding schools for indigenous people in the us "kill the indian and save the man" are an example of that kind of violence. Roma people in Eastern europe occaisionally have their kids kidnapped by the state and put in orphanages or adopted out.

How do you employ someone as a beggar.

even if it is going on it's not a good reason to not give. an equivalent would be refusing to patronize italian businesses because 'they might pay money to the mob' or some shit. there's basic economic & legal relationships that lead to the creation of cartels from legally marginalized groups--it also leads to exploitation because they're not revolutionary--but it's not like its that much worse than regular capitalistic relationships

It is absolutely a real thing in some third world/global south countries, not sure about the USA or Europe though.

I know in South Africa the "unofficial" car guards at shopping malls and public parking, as well as quite a few beggars, are organised. They have to pay someone for the 'right" to operate in a certain area.

I've heard variations on most of these in the USA

• they make more from recycling/begging/whatever!

Afaik it's just flatly not true, and something people say to imply homeless and poor people are faking. In the usa i've heard news stories claiming people make a good living panhandling, and it's always just rubbish, or it turns out the "nice house" the person owns had the mortage paid off long ago and they're panhandling because they can't work and have no income.

• in the us, at least, half of all homeless people have a mental illness, and it's often a severe mental illness that prevents them from getting work.

• i'm sure there are lots of masjids and gurdwaras and churches and whatever handing out food. The people begging might have some other issue, who knows. Even so, cash is cash, and you need cash for many things - paying for a cellphone, maybe, or tampons/pads, or just something to making being desperately poor less miserable.

• I've had folks follow me. I think, if you're in that situation, trying to hustle people for more money probably makes a lot of sense. You're not getting much help to begin with, and I imagine people who do help might be able to be pressured to do more. It sucks, it feels really bad, but I think people do it bc their situation is desperate. Idk, I think the vast majority of people would rather be doing anything else than hustle people for a few more lira.

• idk what the demographics are in Istanbul, but if you couldn't figure out what language they were speaking i suspect they'd have a very, very hard time finding work, dealing with the police, dealing with government services. In the usa people speaking anything other than English have great trouble. Minneapolis has a large Somali people and finding English to Somali translators was always a problem. The little kids who translate for their parents are heroes.

• also from the usa - any minority population here, no matter how good their english is, they face a lot of discrimination in housing, jobs, education, and government services. Cops will do sweeps targetting black people or american indigenous people, things like that. If the folks you were talking to were Roma or another marginal minority there's a good chance they're on the street because society and the state shut them out. I know a little about the Roma struggle in Europe and it is dire - brutal official discrimination at every level of government, frequent violence or even pogroms from Europeans, great discrimination in jobs and work. European racism against Roma, or people they think are Roma, seems insane and vicious even by the standards of America, a nation built on race terror. There are maginalized groups like that all over the world who are subjected to brutal violence by society and the state. Often indigenous people like America indigenous people, or Maya in central america. Or people of "low caste" like Dalits in India or Burakumin in Japan. Society hates them, society creates the conditions that keep them in a miserable situation, and then society use's their situation to justify the hate.

My take is always - i'd rather give money to someone who doesn't need it than refuse money to someone who does. Much worse to withhold help from someone in need than refuse someone who genuinely needs a hand.

It's funny, there are endless stories about beggars being important people in disguise. Jewish people are always expecting Elijah to show up. Vikings could never be sure if the stranger at the door asking for a meal and a place to sleep by the fire was Odin. Many European fairy tales feature a beggar who is revealed later to be a fairy or a prince or a saint who later rewards or punishes the main character. In the Hebrew Bible god sends two angels to Sodom, Lot takes them in and protects them, and the rest of the city is destroyed for violating the laws of hospitality.

You're in Istanbul, Turkey. Do ask hexbear/this website for advice on this issue. Don't trust Google either, it will be full of anti homeless nonsense. Most of the people on here live in the USA, Canada, or the richer European and Scandinavian countries, they have no idea about the cultural context or what it's like in a poorer country. If you're from a "first world" country and are just visiting Turkey, you're experiencing this culture shock I just described. The only way to get accurate advice here would be to ask a Turkish person you trust for advice, and definitely a person who is not an arsehole towards homeless people or beggars.