this post was submitted on 10 Jan 2025
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he is the worst regular in all of the treks I have seen (TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT)

his whole thing is representing White american baby boomer dudes

boring as shit

doesn't belong in space

Torres can do so much better.

I don't believe this shit about being such a hot shot pilot.

I think he was sent by the CIA.

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[–] Nacarbac@hexbear.net 31 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Garrett Wang (Harry Kim) and Robert Duncan McNeill (Tom Paris) did a podcast called The Delta Flyers where they do a full episode-by-episode rewatch of Voyager and often rant about the many problems of the show (and about the bits they enjoyed, as well). Didn't get through it all, but it was decent travel listening.

Both of them are pretty often annoyed about how their characters (and most of the others) were stuck on a writing treadmill to obey that absurd syndication demand of an eternal moment, such that new viewers can drop in without feeling like they've missed anything.

[–] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 6 points 4 days ago

Nitpick, but the treadmill was worsened particularly on voyager because it wasn't syndicated. It was the flagship show for the new UPN network so it had even more suits mucking around. Kept Berman off the ds9 sets, so we should all thank Voyager for making ds9 good.

[–] Murple_27@lemmy.ml 7 points 5 days ago

Both of them are pretty often annoyed about how their characters (and most of the others) were stuck on a writing treadmill to obey that absurd syndication demand of an eternal moment, such that new viewers can drop in without feeling like they’ve missed anything.

If there's anything about the modern streaming media format that's a genuine improvement over previous TV network programming, it's this. Writers are no longer forced to maintain a permanent "status quo" for a show, because anybody who wants to can always go back & rewatch old episodes, or just start at the beginning & catch up with the rest of the audience.

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[–] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 29 points 5 days ago

Very first thing he did in the series was teach Kim to be racist against Ferengi

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 25 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

order-of-lenin

I'm going through Voyager for the first time and I've been thinking all of this.

Paris isn't even subtly or subjectively boomer. He's clearly intentionally written to be a guy in the 1950s. They could have written him with one boomer trait to be cute, but they had to have him be obsessed with classic cars, b&w (and sexist) scifi, man caves, being a playboy, etc. Every episode that centers around Paris ends up being the worst in the series.

Torres can do so much better.

I felt this hard. She was one of the best characters of the series, and her falling for Paris sucked. It's also just not believably written in the show. Just one day they were secretly in love?

I've always hated how Star Trek does relationships between the regulars. The Worf and Troi, Worf and Dax relationships sucked.

don't believe this shit about being such a hot shot pilot.

Has real Top Gun vibes

[–] glans@hexbear.net 3 points 4 days ago

Paris isn't even subtly or subjectively boomer. He's clearly intentionally written to be a guy in the 1950s.

you're right he is too old to be a boomer himself. But like he is there for the boomers. To represent an old kind of masculinity and nostalgia.

Just one day they were secretly in love?

Well actually there was the ep where the invisible aliens were doing experiments on everyone. At the end the 2 of them are discussing how their whole thing could have been mind control from those aliens. Then they kiss and its the end of the ep.

[–] peppersky@hexbear.net 23 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I watched like a good part of Voyager last year and while it's not like the show has no decent episodes, it's absurd just how little happens to the character and how little development goes into them. For them having traveled through the delta quadrant for seven years, most of the characters feel completely unchanged from the pilot on. Nonsense show.

[–] Pandantic@midwest.social 20 points 5 days ago (1 children)

And Kim’s still an Ensign by the end despite saving the whole crew from the Hirogen. Smh

[–] peppersky@hexbear.net 17 points 5 days ago

Imagine working on that show and literally getting nothing to work with for seven years.

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 days ago

They wasted chakotay with terrible episodes and awful backstory. He could've been one of the best characters too.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 28 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Tom Paris engaging in boomer activities on the holodeck was when the character was at his worse

Tom Paris doing crimes and going rogue (you know the whole point of his character in the pilot episode) was when the character came to life, too bad they only gave Tom's criminality two episodes over 7 seasons before dropping that aspect of his personality completely

[–] glans@hexbear.net 16 points 5 days ago

but then the cia got him

[–] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 27 points 5 days ago (8 children)

This video sums it up for me.

Every voyager character that wasn't Seven of Nine of The Doctor were never given the chance to become full characters and they hated it. The writing for voyager was absolute dogshit for the actors and most of them will tell ya, that dogshit writing made Tom Paris a superbeing. Robert Duncan MacNeil doesn't deserve NY bla.e here for.the record. From what I can tell he fully agrees with this and did at the time and made it known as far as he could while keeping his job. Actors don't like playing a boring guy who can do everything either. Forgive all people who made Voyagwe that arent Rick Berman and Bramnan Braga who gets away with too much. Dude was dating Jeri Ryan when he was the show runner.

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[–] buckykat@hexbear.net 23 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Paris can't be the worst, Neelix exists

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 28 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Neelix was annoying because his used car salesman with-a-heart-of-gold personality was completely wasted on the Starfleet crew

The whole point of his character in the first season was to act as a guide thru an unknown region, instead of becoming a boring cook, he should've become the Quark of Voyager, an opportunistic trader and part-time ambassador who would secure the goods but habitually set the b-plot into motion cause he got in over his head trying to acquire 6 months worth of fuel (and a sizable cut for himself) by selling one of the holodecks without the captains' knowledge

[–] glans@hexbear.net 18 points 5 days ago (7 children)

well they BOTH want Kes, the child. So no points awarded either way.

neelix is corny or whatever but he doesn't represent the eternal supremacy of White Men over space. which paris does.

[–] buckykat@hexbear.net 15 points 5 days ago

After Kes leaves/ascends Neelix starts hanging around Naomi Wildman he's the eternal groomer

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[–] 30_to_50_Feral_PAWGs@hexbear.net 14 points 5 days ago (2 children)
[–] buckykat@hexbear.net 19 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Janeway didn't go far enough she should have killed Neelix too after killing Tuvix

[–] 30_to_50_Feral_PAWGs@hexbear.net 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Tuvok would have deemed it only logical if beaming Tuvix into the heart of a neutron star also meant ridding the ship of Neelix.

[–] buckykat@hexbear.net 15 points 5 days ago (1 children)

As another famous Vulcan once said, "It is logical that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one"

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[–] kristina@hexbear.net 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

i love how in lower decks they have an alternate universe where tuvix was an admiral or something

[–] 30_to_50_Feral_PAWGs@hexbear.net 12 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I finally watched the last two episodes last night. So good, and so sad to see it go. catgirl-cry

[–] kristina@hexbear.net 15 points 5 days ago (18 children)

its kinda wild how they would run things like discovery for many seasons and episodes but when they actually have a good show they do it for 4 seasons 10 episodes each which is like fucking nothing

[–] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 12 points 5 days ago (1 children)

They both had equal amounts of seasons. I agree with the sentiment tho. Disco was dead mid season 2, no pun intended, but lower decks has LEGS. That show could have just kinda kept going. George Takei even said so after appearing.

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[–] burgermeister@lemm.ee 21 points 5 days ago (1 children)

He's a nepo baby, his dad's an admiral or some shit

[–] glans@hexbear.net 17 points 5 days ago

oh shit i forget to mention he has basic as fuck DADDY ISSUES

[–] macabrett@lemmy.ml 11 points 5 days ago

of course he was sent by the CIA, they had perfect blackmail on him (getting a classmate killed)

he even changed his name for this mission

[–] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 15 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Named after a city in Fr*nce 🤮

[–] glans@hexbear.net 10 points 5 days ago

don't forget Lieutenant Marseilles

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[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 11 points 5 days ago (1 children)

How do you feel about Nick Locarno?

[–] glans@hexbear.net 15 points 5 days ago

Ah yes another reason i hate tom paris

just enough character was altered to AVOID having to pay royalties to the writer or whatever of that episode. tom paris is basically an inherent scab.

[–] dualmindblade@hexbear.net 10 points 5 days ago

That reminds me, remember Sarah Silverman's Oscar worthy performance when they go back to the future past? She acts almost entirely with her lower lip, presumably as some kind of flex

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