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cross-posted from: https://lemy.lol/post/39626252
We have to agree where we ARE before we stand a chance to agree about what we do from here.
I don't think conservatives are interested in finding common ground. I mean, by all means try it. Just don't get your hopes up.
Sorry, but I wasn't lied to. I never believed a word he said anyways.
I think Republicans can FAFO for the next 4 years and I'll hunker down with my told you so button and laugh it off.
Go read the shit over on r/conservative, and then tell me you think you can reason with those people.
Remember friend, the loudest minority seem to make the majority. You will make no progress with that mindset and only further this class/political division that keeps us from rising up against the oppressors.
Try to find humanity in your enemy
think you can reason with those people.
They are bots. The ones who upvote are bots, the ones who give those horrible takes are bots, and the small minority that do the same thing but more haphazardly are smoothbrains who don't realize they're in the company of bots.
Trumpers will never admit they were wrong or duped, because would mean the libs were right. No matter how much they lose on meme coins, or donate to causes that never happen, or get left behind with no transportation, they will NEVER admit they were wrong.
Because they would instantly be blacklisted from every group they're apart of, much like a flat-earther finally admitting the truth. Their other friends and family have likely let them go from their lives, meaning the only people they have left are other trumpers.
They are more terrified of being alone than they are of living a lie.
Trumper will never...
Trumper human beings. They make mistakes and have bad opinions. Last week I met a Trumper who argued for an hour about how Covid wasn't real. This week he was talking about civil war because he has realized what the administration is doing to him and people he cares about.
Never forget that our enemies are people. While they may not deserve your compassion, if you give it anyway, they will learn to see that they can deserve it and would like to. Treat them as individuals, not an out group
This week he was talking about civil war because he has realized what the administration is doing to him and people he cares about.
And next week he'll change his mind again.
I dunno man, when you actually sat down and talked to him he seemed to really understand what was going on. He doesn't like the tax laws, the tarrifs, the health crisis. He doesn't like them at all, he just didn't realize that the powers that be were manipulating the media he saw and information he received to make it seem like those were problems they would solve instead of cause.
He didn't like listening to the guy that got angry and told him "Covid almost killed me!" But he did enjoy listening to the guy that befriended him and then started subtly bringing up issues with all the new legislation
I dunno man, when you actually sat down and talked to him he seemed to really understand what was going on.
They smile and nod and agree and then go back to the same old fucking lines, 99/100 times.
Get me in a room with an unsuspecting conservative, and I can get them to agree with Marx, Malcolm X, and Mao; their agreement means nothing, because their views are based on passing feelings, and will pass with those selfsame feelings. The media they like to consume, that caters to their feelings, also manipulates those feelings. You are up against their entire media consumption habits.
It's only been one week. I'm not the one fighting that fight, but I'll check in on it
Nah. They do have to admit they were fucking wrong. Otherwise it'll just be the same stupid shit over and over again. Enough reaching out with olive branches.
We're not fighting "conservatives" or "fascism" or the likes. It's what we say all the time, but we're fighting people.
So much can be done for people by being gentler than they deserve. Thus were the teachings of so many great voices throughout history, but we've forgotten them. The black rights movement, women suffrage? There were violent showings of force, but please remember how much the non-violent ones impacted the world before being self-defeating
Nah, they need to admit they were wrong, because they were not lied too. He's doing what he promised, and then some. He didn't trick anyone. What happens when Trump 2.0 comes out and they do the same thing? Are we still going to coddle them and say they were lied to for voting for exactly what is happening? They're mad because they're also being hurt, if not, they wouldn't give two shits. If I can come to terms with being called a nazi and a genocidal fascist for voting against him instead of not at all, they can grow the fuck up and admit they were wrong.
Fucking snowflakes.
The problem is conservatives aren’t willing to admit it. They still argue that no matter what happens it would have been worse with a liberal president. Conservatives actually believe that Putin would be a better president than a democrat. We are fucked.
As we can tell from the reaction to the murder of a health insurance CEO the one thing almost every American agrees on is that we're getting shafted by a bunch of rich assholes.
What can be inferred about Americans for voting in the Trump/Musk administration then?
Obviously, the hardcore rightwing nut jobs voted for him because they're hardcore right wing nut jobs who want fascism. But we're not interested in them. They don't win elections in their own, as evidenced by Biden winning 2020.
It's the people in the "middle" we're interested in, the ones that don't seem to owe a determined allegiance to either party. This time around they genuinely believed that Trump was the better choice to tackle corporate exploitation.
This belief was not based in anything in his platform or his politics - they find that stuff too complicated to parse, for the most part - but rather in the way he presents himself as an outsider, someone who's mission is to burn down the status quo.
The status quo is corporate exploitation. The Dems presented themselves as a party of normalcy. A party that would defend and uphold the status quo and maintain continuity. Never mind that Biden actually made a lot of strong moves to reign in corporate power. That's hidden in the details. The theme of Kamala's campaign was "Business as usual."
Trump presented himself, as always, as the enemy of "Business as usual." They didn't care about the details, just the broad notion that he would upset a system that needs to be upset.
This is why a substantial number of AOC voters also voted for Trump. A lot of these people care far less about party lines than you might think. What they care about most is the idea, the belief, that a candidate will stand against a broken and fucked up system that is killing America and the world. The Dems can't win those voters by continuing to be a party of "Steady hand at the tiller", which is why the left needs to primary the fuck out of every do nothing corporate Dem and put a progressive firebrand in their place, just like the right did to the GOP in the Tea Party takeover.
The person with the most power is traditionally listed before the slash.
I think this is a very meaningful post and I agree with the message. Directing anger across the political divide isn't as helpful as seeking unity against a common adversary.
To lend some assistance in the indexing by search engines (though it may be unnecessary), I'm including the image text below.
You don't have to admit that you were wrong.
Just admit that you were lied to.
And then let's take America back together.
Take America Back. Together.
You were lied to. I was lied to. These corporate bobble heads are robbing our country and playing us for fools. It's time the citizens band together against the rich and corrupt.
I'm in. When? Where? How?
The second amendment is free. Correct your mistake any time, bub.
Instead of daring them to go die unilaterally, we could be forming well-organized militias.
a well-regulated militia... like some document mentioned 👀
But you also were wrong just fyi
Super fucking wrong, and also super fucking dumb, not saying that as an insult I just care about you and think someone should tell your stupid ass
Amen. The answer to right-wing populism dependent on dividing the working class is a leftist populist message uniting the working class by pointing the finger at the rich who are the true root of all their problems.
This image was crossposted from !conservative@lemm.ee. The average subscriber there probably has a much different interpretation of who the image could be referring to. Conservatives are not present in reality enough to even consider that Trump and Musk are the baddies — the “corporate bobble heads” and the “rich and corrupt” as the image says.
To my pleasant surprise, the top comments on the crosspost are sensible:
If you are “conservative” in any manner, you’ve been voting for the destruction of both people and society in both word and deed for the past 40 years.
Sure, you may want me to be beaten to death, but at least you admitted eggs aren’t cheap now, this makes us allies.
Wasn't that the community that was taken over and is now conservative satire?
Wasn't that !conservative@lemmy.world? From what I can see the .ee one is still under old management. Or did I miss something?
Oh, that's possible! I wasn't 100% sure either, hence phrasing it as a question.
On a side note - I find it hard to keep track of similar (or same) named communities...
Ah, I didn’t notice. I already had it on my blocked list so I glanced at it in another browser and saw about a dozen posts by a user named Donald J Musk that seemed to be sharing articles in earnest.
Yep. It's all conservative (shitposting)
The average c/conservative user is decidedly not conservative
They can't they're too busy being tickled pink their brown neighbors are being ethnically clensed, and black folks are losing all their civil rights protections. Don't get confused. They voted for the racism. They are getting the thing they voted for.
Some conservatives already agree on where both sides are, they're just willing to take a hit in order for others to also suffer. They're banking on being lifted out of the shit at some point by the better off of their side (who won't ever help even their own because that means sharing the winnings).
Nope. They had the chance to reconcile by keeping Don the Con out in 2024. They chose to spit in the faces of their fellow Americans, and indeed the world.
No forgiveness. They broke it, the fix it. And I will ENJOY their suffering from their own actions until they do. If Dems regain control, don’t fix the harm to the Repubs - let them wallow in it. Help those who DIDN’T choose to become MAGAts.
All or nothing ultimatums generally result in nothing.
Possibly, but Dems constantly bailing out terrible Repub decisions, consequence-free, is what got us here. I don’t think the more of the same is going to get us out of it.
Admitting that someone you trusted and idolized lied to you, and then working against that former idol is hard. Heartbreaking, even.. People will find themselves alienated by thir communities who still thinking it's 7D-Chess. That is the consequences.
Imagine finding common ground with the people you have decided already in your heart and you are already fully convinced without evidence or grasping at straws for cherry picked evidence to have had or are:
Cost you the election
Want to murder you and every minority you can think of
Totally Nazis
Nazi supporters
Authoritarians
Fascists
Rapists
Pedophiles
Idiots
Imbeciles
Subhuman
Soulless
Murder worthy
And every other negative adjective you could think of, I'm not that creative but I'm sure Lemmy can pick up the slack
And then think why the others might not think it is a good idea to go to your side, vote you or even think that's is no place anymore for common ground
You're an actual nazi though, so your opinion means very little. Less than that even.