this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2023
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[–] aseriesoftubes@lemmy.world 156 points 7 months ago (4 children)

The stock market isn’t the economy, at least as most Americans experience it, though it is the same metric that Trump and his followers used to show how “strong” the economy was during his term.

If I had a nickel for every time some Trump apologist said “sure, Trump’s a jerk, but how’s your 401(k)?” during 2017-2021, I’d have… a lot of nickels.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 28 points 7 months ago (3 children)

True, but also the economy was plummeting for years. I can’t think of a year Joe Biden was president that we weren’t expecting a recession by the end of it. Right now we’re looking at improvement next year. That’s what Biden’s economy is. He played a bad hand really well and we’re consistently doing better than countries with right wing leadership have been since the pandemic.

[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It's just the cycle. Dems get the economy healthy, then a republican comes in and trashes everything and leaves a mess for the next dem in office to fix.

The policy changes always take some time to fuck things up, so it usually happens after the republican gets ousted.

[–] Wrench@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I mean, the housing market is fucked for the foreseeable future because the Trump administration kept interest rates ridiculously low, well after we had recovered from the 2008 crash.

This made a bubble from businesses and individuals borrowing as much "free money" as they could because it was easy to beat the interest, even from low performing investments. Obviously, a lot of this money ended up in the real estate market, inflating the shit out of it. Then the pandemic happened, and everyone was stuck at home, wanting to upgrade, and bam, crazy inflation.

So now we're rather fucked. Prices aren't coming down because people are locked into their stupidly low interest rates and can't sell without taking a huge hit.

Big surprise that existing real estate owners saw their properties double as a direct result of economic policy, dictated by a real estate tycoon president.

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[–] banneryear1868@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The active president doesn't really have as much control over the economy as people think, Trump's tariffs are still in place and wholly supported by Biden as well to the chagrin of the WTO. People's perception of the economy absolutely changes with the active president, to the point that people will feel more financially secure the day after the president they support wins the election and isn't even sworn in to office yet. The overarching neoliberal capitalist economy is consented to by both major parties and is "right" leaning if we're talking pure economic political spectrum. Democrats just believe in more tax incentives and inclusion, Republicans are more ruthless. I guess the main point I'm making is the "Trump" or "Biden" economy isn't real, what they effectively have are dials that fine tune secondary parameters of the economy.

World events out of their control or financial sector behaviors (like mortgage-backed securities and collateralized debt obligations) are the "real" drivers and the government under either party is generally reactive. Biden is basically doing "good" things under this system that don't upset it but have small noticeable improvements. So while it's good to point this out it's also important to realize these aren't unprecedented or majorly new things and likely won't alter our default economic arrangement and social contract, which is still being degraded as the neoliberal capitalist system degrades.

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[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 22 points 7 months ago (1 children)

What I love is how they ALL seem to have done SO much better during Trump. Like they got paid more at work, they got more in taxes, people on the streets just threw money at them, the sky rained money…

[–] aseriesoftubes@lemmy.world 31 points 7 months ago

Funny, the “fuck your feelings” pro-Trump crowd seems to perceive the state of the economy based entirely on their feelings.

[–] Kingofthezyx@lemm.ee 20 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

“sure, Trump’s a jerk, but how’s your 401(k)?”

Or as I like to paraphrase, "My morality is for sale"

[–] Nougat@kbin.social 7 points 7 months ago

It's only a "depression" when the ownership class is affected.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 48 points 7 months ago

Reality truly doesn't matter anymore. They just want to scream whatever they want to.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 48 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Says the "businessman" who bankrupted his own casinos and achieved his company wealth through fraud.

ETA: that is a very unflattering photo, holy shit.

[–] stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] Ashyr@sh.itjust.works 14 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Confusing acronym given it already means estimated time of arrival.

[–] dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Acronyms can have more than one meaning.

TLC - tender loving care

TLC - the learning channel

[–] protist@mander.xyz 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

TLC - T-Boz, Left Eye, and Chilli

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

For when you need some advice on whether to pursue large bodies of cascading water or the desirability of the sanitary clothing worn by workers involved in patient care.

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[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

And Euskadi Ta Askatasuna, a militant Basque seperatist group that dissolved in 2018.

Probably only a couple people who thought that was what he meant, though. Three at most.

[–] FontMasterFlex@lemmy.world 47 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The stock market is not a 1:1 representation of the spending power of your dollar. The stock market is how well your overlords are doing, not you, the average american.

[–] TechyDad@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

True, but Republicans constantly tout the stock market's performance when they are in charge. Every tick upwards is declared to be thanks to them. Every dip is said to be because Democrats got in the way.

So a Democrat in charge of the White House and the stock market rising is a good refutation of their talking point. For "common man economy indications," I'd instead point to things like the extremely low unemployment rate.

[–] Ultraviolet@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

They like to claim the low unemployment is somehow a bad thing. If you dig into why, it's basically because when employees are harder to replace, they're harder to exploit, so working conditions and wages improve while shareholder profits slightly decrease, and they focus entirely on the latter.

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[–] reverendsteveii@lemm.ee 44 points 7 months ago

trump lies about everything but the stock market has ever-decreasing relevance to the average american because it reflects the value of property and the average american is being shut out of owning anything.

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 37 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation. Every word.

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 7 months ago

Some people will read that and think you're exaggerating. I know better.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 35 points 7 months ago

By every metric they ridiculed Obama over, and praised Trump for (forget delayed-onset of policy effects from Obama), they suddenly ignore for Biden lmao.

Gas coming down, inflation rate down, stock markers up, unemployment good, et.

[–] NounsAndWords@lemmy.world 35 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I said it during the Trump admin and I say it still. The stock market is not the economy and I don't really care how much money the top 1% owning the majority of stocks are ~~making~~ skimming.

[–] jettrscga@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

I agree, but it's still blatant lying from Trump because you know he doesn't care about that other 99% and the economy beyond the stock market.

[–] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 22 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Republicans have no need for facts and truth, truthiness and alternative facts are all they need and Trump's word is all of that wrapped up in a nice racist package.

[–] Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works 20 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Okay but it isn't for normal people. Your made up numbers have nothing to do with the average person.

[–] SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca 9 points 7 months ago

For the average person, there is less inequality (Gini coefficient has gone down), high employment, and historic wage increases. Not saying there aren’t still lots of problems, but the economy is hands down better under Biden.

[–] dumpsterlid@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I love it when liberals start screaming at you about how it is misinformation that Americans think the economy isn’t doing great because stock market number good or some other economic number good.

It’s like, have you fucking talked to any human beings living in the US lately? Are you out of your mind? Life in the US is brutally hard right now. We are in the middle of a massive class war and we are losing badly, but yes the class that actually owns the economy is doing great.

Conservatives/Trump are obviously shittier choices, it just is 0% surprising that people don’t feel that happy about the stock market doing well when they can’t afford rent and the idea of owning a home is a laughable pipe dream.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

We are in the middle of a massive class war and we are losing badly

Dude, consider some of the positives …. I’m old enough to remember Reagan union bashing by firing air traffic controllers. Now we have unions showing more strength than I’ve seen in my life. They’ve been hit hard, over and over, decade after decade, but now are standing up again. This could be the big counterattack in that class war

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[–] Lemminary@lemmy.world 18 points 7 months ago

He's always saying some bullshit, can we move on?

[–] 800XL@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago (4 children)

It's all president drink bleach can do - constantly forecast doom and gloom to the people who aren't happy without something to spend every waking moment worrying about.

It's a drug to them worse than heroin.

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[–] joker125@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago

I guess Trump is currently in the one in a depression phase.

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago

That's donnie, really tuned into the reality of things, at least as Faux "News" portrays them.

[–] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 12 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I seem to recall the stock market doing extremely well right up to 1929...

[–] SecretSauces@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You remember that?! How old are you?

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[–] Destraight@lemm.ee 6 points 7 months ago

Even though my burger today was not $3.60, but was in fact $2.35. ok Trump.. you fucking idiot

[–] ArdMacha@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

The only recession risk came from some idiot who added $1trillion to the national debt in the space of 4 years.

[–] Crack0n7uesday@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

I mean the economy was good under Coolidge until it wasn't. Completely different chain of events leading up to that though.

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