this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2025
638 points (98.5% liked)

Science Memes

11671 readers
1641 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.



Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.

This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.



Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 9 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

This is framed like 80 generations is a small number, but that's huge. Culture and civilization moves so quickly that even 3 generations ago life is barely recognisable. I can't even imagine what life was like 40 generations ago.

[–] Donkter@lemmy.world 3 points 22 minutes ago

Many people don't realize that the amount of change our culture goes through in a lifetime is unfathomable historically. Before the 1800s it took a good decade for news to truly travel around to everyone in a region, and that was considered timely if it happened at all. Farming, hunting, homemaking, war, stayed exactly the same for dozens of years at a time and changes were usually made abruptly due to conflict before stagnating again.

[–] slazer2au@lemmy.world 37 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

The lengths Americans will go to in order not to use the metric system is insane.

[–] prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 13 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

I am interested in learning about this metric time.

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 9 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Oh?

"450 mothers ago" is roughly 363,500 megaseconds ago.

To be fair, measuring that in moms seems more intuitive.

[–] letsgo@lemm.ee 1 points 1 hour ago

It's also about the speed of light in millifortnights (2.9e8), within a 4% error margin.

[–] bluewing@lemm.ee 2 points 58 minutes ago

The French tried to impose "metric" time way back in the day. Even they learned that was a bad idea and quietly dropped it. The solar system seems to prefer it's base12 time.

I think it maybe helped give rise the the saying: "The French follow no one. And no one follows the French."

[–] Bearlydave@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago

What is the conversion from imperial mother to metric mother? About 1:1.26?

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 9 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

And if everyone of your ancestors was unique (so no inbreeding) 80 mothers ago there would had to be 2^80^ = more than 1.2 septillion people on the planet

[–] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

This assumes a single child per set of parents, doesn't it?

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

No I’m talking about the amount of ancestors in the 80th generation back not the total amount of ancestors. It doesn’t matter how many children each set of parents had for that number.

[–] OhNoMoreLemmy@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 hours ago

And if your grandmother had wheels she would be a bicycle.

[–] Sergio@slrpnk.net 74 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

Yeah only 2 generations ago, LGBT people were considered mentally ill. 4 generations ago women were considered unfit to vote. 8 generations ago about half the US though it was OK to own slaves. It takes a while for ideas to die out. That's why US elections turn out the way they do.

[–] flora_explora@beehaw.org 21 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Humanity isn't progressing uniformly forward like this. Lgbtqia+ people were considered normal part of society by various cultures. Also Magnus Hirschfeld was an advocate for lgbtqia+ people a hundred years ago. Slavery has been transformed into modern slavery because the western world has found other, more concealed ways to force people into labor. Ideas may die out, but they will pop into people's head again and again.

[–] araneae@beehaw.org 10 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

And yet discussing progress in this manner can be a confort. All that you said was true... But what the person you replied said was also true. Two generations since fertilizer or two generations since we locked in Malthusian anarchy[please note I do not espouse Malthusianism]. Three generations since the worst war known to man and three generations that did not experience that kind of war. Glass half full, glass half empty. It's correct to question the myth of unstoppable progress thru which you can just kick your feet up and relax. But equally is it important to keep perspective remember that, yeah, eight generations ago chattel slavery was a bonafide institution and four generations women were unfranchised. Things get better and they get worse. We make progress and it is wiped away. We still keep trying.

[–] TheWolfOfSouthEnd@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 5 hours ago

They were institutionalising out of wedlock mothers aswell, at least in the UK and Ireland.

Philomena…very good film.

[–] Shawdow194@fedia.io 15 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Two steps forward. One step back

[–] Comment105@lemm.ee 18 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (3 children)

Wonder how long it'll take before we get to step forward again. As far as I'm seeing, we're in for a long ride back. Not just for 4 years.

[–] VoterFrog@lemmy.world 6 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

The American people are pretty fickle. It won't take long for them to become unhappy with the Republican party. Of course once that happens and you and I are celebrating "Yay! We got rid of the fascists!" they'll be going "Hmm... These other guys are pretty uninspiring. Maybe we should try fascism again."

* There's a big asterisk here that this is all predicted on elections continuing unabated. Which is not a given.

[–] meowMix2525@lemm.ee 1 points 41 minutes ago

And when the Democrats put up the same fascist policies in continuation of the status quo and refuse to defend those who find themselves targeted by Republicans, you will "hold your nose" to vote for them and cry at anyone who refuses to fall in line and do the same; in fact you will actively work against their efforts to build up power in resistance of both parties just because it won't immediately pay off and you're too brainwashed to believe in any power but the two-party system's power. And then your party will lose anyways and take another step rightward in response. I know you people, we've done this whole song and dance before.

[–] Sergio@slrpnk.net 8 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

This has happened before. Even after Abu Ghraib Bush Jr won re-election. Even after Iran-Contra the Republicans won re-election.

But the fact is that they do not have the answers. They can only take things for themselves, and hope that people give up.

[–] sevenapples@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 8 hours ago

Civilian Drone Strike Obama and Palestinian Genocide Joe aren't better

[–] dumbass@leminal.space 4 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

It wouldn't surprise me if Trump made it President for life.

[–] xilliah@beehaw.org 3 points 6 hours ago

No way that would last long, it's just not how Americans tick

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] BudgetBandit@sh.itjust.works 26 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

Depending on the religion, yes. Otherwise it‘s 12 years per mother, 14 if you’re late.

That's also assuming you're the first born of the first born of the first born, and so on. And the further back you go, the more individual kids the average mother is likely to have. After all, you had to have like 12 kids just so 3 of them would make it past 9.

So your greatx12 grandmother might've started having kids at 15, but she still might not have had your ancestor till years later.

[–] fibojoly@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 hours ago

You would have a lot more death during pregnancy / childbirth though.

[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 61 points 13 hours ago (5 children)

That’s not a well-founded assumption. The average age of first birth was only 21 as recently as 1970. Go back a few hundred years and it’s way younger than that. Many women throughout history became mothers as soon as they were able (right after the onset of puberty). Many cultures had rites of passage into adulthood for boys and girls of that age. There was no such thing as adolescence.

[–] Acamon@lemmy.world 22 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

As the other commentator says, medieval Europe was mostly early twenties. Studies of stone age remains suggest a first birth age average of 19.5 and contemporary hunter gather societies have a comparable average. Sexual activity generally begins earlier, during adolescence, but the most "reproductively successful" age for beginning childbearing has been shown to be around 18-19. Also, this age at first birth isnt "Average age of a child's mother" as many women would have multiple kids over their life, so the average sibling would have a much older mother at birth than the firstborn.

Its important to remember that puberty has shifted massively since industrialisation, "menarche age has receded from 16.5 years in 1880 to the current 12.5 years in western societies". So the post-puberty fecundity peak, that use to happen 17-19, when women are fully grown enough to minimise birth complications, now happens at a disressingly young 13-15. Not only is this a big social yuck for most western societies, but it's reproductively unideal, because of the complications linked to childbirth at that age.

[–] Fritee@lemmy.world 7 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Huh, that’s interesting. Do we know why the menarche age has receded?

[–] shneancy@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

if you click that second study link it's exactly about that

[–] TheWolfOfSouthEnd@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 5 hours ago

Don’t they say teenagers/adolescence were invented in the 50s as that was the first time people were able to afford to allow their kids to carry on education?

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 47 points 13 hours ago (10 children)

In Western Europe at least back to the early medieval period it was common for anyone who wasn’t nobility to have their first child around 22. The younger you are the more likely you’re going to have serious (fatal, back then) complications. It was the nobility that was marrying off barely pubescent kids.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 29 points 13 hours ago

It was the nobility that was marrying off barely pubescent kids.

Same as it ever was.

[–] Sabre363@sh.itjust.works 11 points 12 hours ago

Could we say (for no other reason than I'm stoned and it sounds good) the rough average mother-age is 18-ish? Then there would be roughly ~110 mothers since Jesus cheated and respawned for our sins.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world 8 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

First births yes, but what about average age? Our ancestors may have been second born, third born, eighth born etc

[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

High maternal mortality meant that having more than about 7 children per woman was rare. Total fertility rate was about 4.5 to 7 in the pre modern era. Population growth was low due to infant and early childhood mortality though.

If you start having children at age 12, you can have a child every year and reach 7 children by age 20. Without contraceptives, people weren’t having such large multi-year gaps between children like we do now.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 hours ago

Based on my own genealogical research, the trend I typically saw was 6-8 kids, between 18 and early 30s, about 20% of which died. Plus consider that some of those will be sons, and some daughters never become mothers, 25 is pretty spot on for the average age for a mother-to-mother generational gap.

[–] emeralddawn45@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Maybe 23 would be a better average, but even if wvery women in your line gave birth at 12.5 that only doubles the other. And its fair to say not every mother would have been a first child. Also many still would have been born later than 25, so it probably evens out pretty well.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 19 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

I knew my great-grandmother, few people do. My great-great-grandmother is an ancient picture on the wall of my dead grandmother's house, from a time when photography was new, a scant few years past daguerreotypes.

4 mothers back is all I can summon, only remember 3.

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 11 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

4 mothers back is all I can summon,

What's the spell?

[–] _stranger_@lemmy.world 13 points 12 hours ago

"I'm feeling hungry and mildly pregnant"

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Ulvain@sh.itjust.works 9 points 12 hours ago

Let's push it one step further and frame history since agriculture, 9500 years ago, against the upper limit of a human lifetime now, about 100 years. This would mean recorded times started only less than 100 human lifespans ago. Bleh

[–] Deebster@infosec.pub 20 points 14 hours ago

I was thinking that it's now 81 mothers ago, but then I got distracted by the fact that there was no year 0AD and now I'm thinking that roughly 80 is good enough.

[–] dariusj18@lemmy.world 21 points 15 hours ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›