Did he even watch the debate? Biden played right into the right-wing narrative about him. The only way Biden wins this thing is by getting out there, talking to every reporter, holding every baby, and proving that the debate was a fluke. I don't think he can do it.
this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2024
102 points (72.2% liked)
politics
19135 readers
2534 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I don't think he can do it.
And if he can, why the hell isn't he?!?!
It's not like it's a singular action he can take. It's going to take weeks of consistent behavior before people believe any kind of short-term issue like a cold.
Can he do it is one question. Is there enough time is another.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Biden should have booked a tough sit down interview for the weekend after the debate to show he has the mental chops and ability to communicate the stakes of this campaign. Instead it's been five days now since the debate and Biden hasn't spoken publicly without a teleprompter. Hell dem governors and members of congress, including party leaders, have not spoken to Biden since the debate. Biden is doing basically nothing to calm people down. Hiding him and only rolling him out with a teleprompter in tow just plays into the republican conspiracy that Biden has had a significant decline. To the point that it's starting to not seem like a conspiracy. If Biden wants to stay in the race, he needs to fix this, like yesterday. Is the reason he hasn't done so yet because he can't do it? If so, wtf is he still in the race??
Which narrative? They have multiple to cover every outcome.
When he's lucid, he's on drugs. When he's not, he's sleepy Joe. You can't win by placating the right. Independents and democrats do have real concerns, and the DNC can ignore them at their own peril.
Independents and democrats do have real concerns, and the DNC can ignore them at ~~their own~~ our peril.
FTFY
Good point, they'll be fine no matter what.
You can’t win by placating the right.
Yes, but the alternative involves moving left. Party leadership would rather lose and blame the left than embrace them.
load more comments
(3 replies)
The Democratic Party held 57 primaries and caucuses; voters in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and five U.S. territories had their say
Not a single primary candidate besides Biden appeared on a majority of states ballots, and many states literally only had Biden. Democrats did not have a primary this year.
Right? I don't remember seeing a debate or anything. It's equivalent to those elections people make fun of in North Korea, where the choices are the leader and nobody.
His percentages were even higher than Putin in those races
This article is fucking absurd. It holds up the primary as a paragon if the democratic process, even though Biden was the only candidate to have universal ballot access, and ignores the fact that two-thirds of Democratic didn't want him to run. It compares the Drop-Biden advocates to the January 6th protesters, even though they're advocating for a contested convention, which is the same process that was used until 1970. And to top it all off, it's written by Stuart Stevens, AKA Mitt Romney's 2012 campaign strategist. Why should the Democrats be taking advice from a Republican strategist, especially one that's already botched a presidential campaign?
Primaries are also weird because depending on what state you live in the election is often decided before you even get to vote. Imagine living in a state as big as California and having no impact on the primary.
If the general election can be one day maybe so can the primary.
That's a feature, not a bug. The party leaders like having time to craft a narrative and create momentum behind their preferred candidate. It's how Biden's campaign managed to come back from the dead in 2020. If the primaries were all held on the same day, these pundits wouldn't be telling us to stick with Biden, they'd be telling us Bernie is too old for a second term.
Imagine living in a state as big as California and having no impact on the primary.
After South Carolina has decided for you.
Why should the Democrats be taking advice from a Republican strategist
Consistency?
I voted uncommitted for a lot of reasons, and this is one of them. Getting Biden out and having a brokered convention certainly expresses my democratic will.
So the Democratic Party doesn't actually favor democracy?
Next you'll tell me North Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, isn't actually democratic either.
The Dems coronated Biden while screaming at the top of their lungs how much they love democracy.
Goddamn I am tired of being gaslit.
Super tired of bullshit.
Tired of lies. Just because Trump lies 10 times for every 7 words he speaks does not mean I want a party that claims to rep my interests for me to lie to me 4 times for every 7 words. Jesus fucking H Christ. "But we the Dems only raped you a little bit, and the GOP will rape you more." Go fuck yourselves with that logic, Dem scum.
We need a giant country-wide systemic reset and the Dem leadership is thinking what kind of crumb they can still throw at the plebs without upsetting their precious billionaire donors.
The Dems slow-walked us to fascism while blaming the GOP. The Dems take zero personal responsibility.
The Democratic Party cannot fail us, it can only be failed by us.
The Democratic Party held 57 primaries and caucuses; voters in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and five U.S. territories had their say, as did Democrats abroad. Joe Biden won 87 percent of the total vote.
The fuq? There weren't any challengers except for a guy with a brain worm. We didn't have a primary, and now we are seeing the consequences of not having a primary.
load more comments
(5 replies)
DNC Leadership: We won't have a real primary, that'll weaken the incumbent, who'll probably win anyway. And remember, if you don't get behind our anointed candidate, you're anti-democratic.
The numbers are already coming in, the debate hurt Biden, and badly. Why does "Democracy is on the line" only mean voters are required to show up to vote for whoever DNC Leadership chose for us? Why do they have no obligation to put their best foot forward?
They're gonna bet democracy on "We don't really have a plan to turn this around, we're just gonna keep doing what we've been doing and hope things get better." The man is ancient, his brain is not gonna suddenly start improving. People know how aging works, and know that even if he never flops that badly on camera again, it's just because he was never on camera at the wrong time.
load more comments
(25 replies)
Long story short is splitting up the Democrats is exactly what conservatives want, to the point I wouldn't be surprised if media moguls are spending millions to protect their billions by giving this movement any traction at all.
We (read: Dems) can rally around him all we want. The point of the debate was to convince independents, uninformed voters never-Trumpers so that the polls start to look more favorable. Biden failed to do that and has no meaningful opportunity to do so for the rest of the campaign.
The informed Democrats can rally around him as much as they want, but he is still falling short, which is why a pivot seems risky but like the only real shot left
This movement wouldn't have any traction if Biden put on even a middling debate performance. We all saw Biden start to answer a question about abortion, then get confused and switch midway into talking about some woman killed by an immigrant. You don't need a grand conspiracy, it's a simple case of grandpa being too full of pride to give up his car keys. Except in this case the car is American democracy.
Biden was a great president. He should have asked in his accomplishments and set up a new generation of dem leaders. Instead, he let his pride get in the way, ignored his own decline, tried to hide it by refusing interviews and non-scripted public events, even the softball traditional pre superbowl interview, and then had that disaster of a debate. Yes, I'll still vote for the corpse of Biden if it means stopping Trump. But will swing voters? What about Trump to Biden voters in purple districts? What about young people and anyone already pissed about the genocide in Gaza? Is the "corpse is better than Trump" argument going to motivate infrequent voters to turn out? Better fucking hope so, cause Biden has us in this fucked position, is refusing to back down, so I guess we'll find out.
This is just braindead gaslighting. We all saw his performance. Dedicated Democratic cheerleaders like the Pod Save America guys think it's the worst debate performance ever and needs to be carefully considered whether he can turn things around (and frankly, are leaning toward the "he can't" side). Democratic leaders have been giving guarded answers about how they support Biden's decision on whether to stay in, not that he should of course stay in. This isn't remotely "media moguls" doing. The wagon circling is transparent and stupid and not working.
There was an event the next day where he gave a speech to a friendly crowd and by comparison he sounded like a spry well organized guy half his age. Hardly a mention of that out there though. I'm not a big fan of his miliqtost, half steps on a lot of things but it's playing the game with what cards are available and having decades in political office gives you the experience to do it. I'm largely willing to write off the debate as being so flustered with the torrent of bullshit coming from Trump that it put him off balance.
Yeah, that event was also early in the day and all he had to do was read from a teleprompter. I guess it's good to know he can still read but that certainly doesn't erase the 90+ minutes of him not being able to think on his feet, going off on tangents, kneecapping his own responses, looking like a fucking corpse, and somehow managing to make Trump look eloquent by comparison.
If he was put off balance by the same torrents of bullshit Trump has been spewing for eight years then I'm even more concerned about his mental facilities.
I'm not a dem but will vote for anyone with a pulse that isn't trump. Dems are deluding themselves if they think Biden is their best or even only candidate that can beat Trump. I want someone that will instill confidence and contrast with Trump. Biden ain't it. I'll still vote for whoever isn't trump on the ballot though.
Biden is splitting Democrats. The center-left is split, and now even the centrists are starting to split among themselves.
🎯
load more comments
(1 replies)
Listen. I don't like Biden. I didn't get a choice of who should run for the Democratic party in my state.
But at the end of the day, I would pick a literal pile of dog shit that's turned white from being cooked in the sun, over Donald Trump.
The debate isn't changing anyones mind. It sure is generating a lot of panic news though because to the news, appearing tired is just as damaging as appearing unhinged and lying nonstop.
If the reason to vote for Biden is that he isn't Trump, why shouldn't the dems run a candidate that both isn't Trump and is most likely going to hold onto their mental competence into next year? Either way, they're going to get the "not Trump" vote which by your reasoning should still cover the vast majority of would-be Biden voters.
load more comments
(2 replies)
If you ask me what’s absurd is clinging on to Biden against all the evidence. He’s clearly super unpopular, and that’s in no small part to his age.
He must step aside and basically any halfway reasonable candidate under 60 would be in with a decent shot of the job. Give the population something to vote for rather than vote against.
Right. Every “vote blue no matter who” voter will be voting blue no matter who it is. It’s just a vote against Trump. No one is going out specifically to vote for Biden. Could swap him out with any other warm body with a half functional brain and it would only mean extra votes.
load more comments
(2 replies)
: “I worked in five presidential campaigns for Republicans and helped elect Republican senators and governors in more than half of the country. For decades, I made ads attacking the Democratic Party. But in all those years, I never saw anything as ridiculous as the push, in the aftermath of last week’s debate, to replace Joe Biden as the Democratic nominee.”
“For many in the party, the event raised genuine concerns about the incumbent’s fitness for a new term. But a president’s record makes a better basis for judgment than a 90-minute broadcast does. Biden has a capable vice president, should he truly become unable to serve. The standard for passing over Democratic voters’ preferred nominee should be extraordinarily high—and has not been met.”
I can't read the article myself due to the paywall. But presumably these quotes are by the same individual? Why would any Democrat campaign take the advice of someone who has spent decades helping to get Republican presidents elected? Why would he offer his advice to them at all? Certainly not in good faith. And why would he be an expert at what makes a good choice regarding nominees? His campaigns have presumably lost as many as they've won and their electorate is motivated by fundamentally different things. And never has there been a situation like this for either party during an election, a former president and convicted felon and current president circling the drain.
I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment, but given the source I don't give the slightest fuck what his view point is on matters of the Democratic Party.
.
Well that's good to know. Thank you.
load more comments
(3 replies)
Lemmy will shriek for months that progressives want Trump to win, then immediately believe that a Republican strategist isn't encouraging them to stick with a candidate who is going to lose if he stays in the race.
Is the Atlantic going to say the same thing about democracy in 2028 when Trump has all other candidates removed from the ballot?
Didn't The Atlantic officialy say that Biden should drop out?
This is so fucking dumb, the entire thing is premised on meaningful primaries occurring all over the country. How many of those "57" were actually competitive? I know my state had literally one candidate on the ballot. Biden extremely strongly implied that he wouldn't run for a second term, then pulled a "lol jk it's me or the literal fascist." Most people didn't want Biden to run again, but here we fucking are. And The Atlantic has the gall to say that this is a vocal minority of crybabies demanding an open and competitive primary be overturned. Fuck off.
view more: next ›